4
 1                        WANDA WITNESS,
 2   having been produced and first duly sworn as a witness
 3   on behalf of Max R. Mortgagor, and after responding "I
 4   do" to the oath, testified as follows:
 5                     DIRECT EXAMINATION
 6   BY MR. FINNER:
 7        Q    Would you state your name for the record and
 8   spell it, please.
 9        A    Wanda Witness, first name, W-a-n-d-a, last name,
10   W-i-t-n-e-s-s.
11        Q    And, Ms. Witness -- am I pronouncing that
12   right?
13        A    Close enough.
14        Q    What's the right way?
15        A    Witness.
16        Q    Witness.  In what capacity are you here this
17   morning?
18        A    I'm to serve as your witness for this
19   deposition.
20        Q    Are you here on behalf of an employer?
21        A    Yes.
22        Q    Who is that employer?
23        A    Wells Fargo.
24        Q    And when you say, "Wells Fargo," are you
25   referring to a particular corporation?

                                                                     5
 1        A    Wells Fargo Home Mortgage.
 2        Q    And is Wells Fargo Home Mortgage incorporated
 3   somewhere?
 4        A    No.  They are a subsidiary.
 5        Q    What are they a subsidiary of?
 6        A    Wells Fargo Bank, N.A.
 7        Q    There have been some documents filed in the
 8   bankruptcy court in this case -- and when I say, "this
 9   case," I'm talking about Max R. Mortgagor's Chapter 11
10   case -- that say, "Wells Fargo Home Mortgage, Inc."  Do
11   you know why it would have said "Inc." on it?
12        A    No, I do not.
13        Q    Are you familiar with Max Mortgagor's
14   bankruptcy case?
15        A    I have reviewed the file.
16        Q    When did you review the file?
17        A    In the course of the past few weeks.
18        Q    So when would you say roughly was the first
19   date that you learned of Max Mortgagor's Chapter 11
20   case?
21        A    6/25.
22        Q    June of 2007, this --
23        A    Yes.
24        Q    -- year?
25             Okay.  What's your title at Wells Fargo?

                                                                     6
 1        A    Default litigation specialist.
 2        Q    And what are your job functions?
 3        A    Research and maintain litigation files,
 4   attend as corporate witnesses when needed, dealing with
 5   the attorneys on the cases for resolution thereof.
 6        Q    You lucky devil.
 7             When you say, "litigation file," does your
 8   organization have a definition or a description of what
 9   makes a litigation file?
10        A    Under a bankruptcy if there's an adversary
11   filed or a motion for contempt filed or a trustee's
12   motion to avoid the lien, those all constitute
13   litigation in our department.  Under foreclosure it
14   would be counterclaims, title actions.
15        Q    So your job encompasses litigation both at
16   bankruptcy court and in other courts such as state
17   courts; is that right?
18        A    Yes.
19        Q    How long have you been working at Wells
20   Fargo?
21        A    A little over a year.
22        Q    Where did you work before then?
23        A    I worked for Offutt, Horman & Burdette.
24        Q    What was your title there?
25        A    Executive administrative assistant.

                                                                     7
 1        Q    And where is Offutt, Horman & Burdette
 2   located?
 3        A    Frederic, Maryland.
 4        Q    Frederic.  What's your educational
 5   background?
 6        A    I have my high school diploma and a
 7   computerized business and office technology degree.
 8        Q    And where is that degree from?
 9        A    Accutech.
10        Q    Have you had any training regarding the
11   servicing of mortgages?
12        A    Can you clarify what you mean by "training"?
13        Q    Have you sat in any classrooms to learn about
14   the servicing of mortgages?
15        A    In a general sense, yes.
16        Q    And can you describe more particularly where
17   and how that took place.
18        A    Whenever -- in each job that I've held in the
19   mortgage industry, there have been initial training
20   courses when you start the job on how their computer
21   systems read and how they maintain files.
22        Q    How many jobs have you held in the mortgage
23   industry?
24        A    I've worked in the mortgage industry for
25   approximately seven years.

                                                                     8
 1        Q    And starting with your first job in the
 2   capacity can you just say what the name of your
 3   employer was and the date you worked there and what
 4   your job title was.
 5        A    First employer would have been Draper &
 6   Goldberg, PLLC, starting in approximately 2000.  I was
 7   the bankruptcy and eviction compliance officer -- left
 8   there for Specialized, Inc., of Virginia, worked
 9   there --
10             THE COURT REPORTER:  "Left there for
11        specialized" . . .?
12             THE WITNESS:  Inc. of Virginia.
13             Sorry -- worked there 2001/2002 range.  I was
14        title specialist and bankruptcy specialist.  Next
15        position was with Fisher Law Group, worked there
16        as a post-sales specialist and then a presale
17        specialist.  I'm trying to think of the -- the
18        years.  I want to say that was in '05.  And then
19        you have already been advised of the past two.
20   BY MR. FINNER:
21        Q    What does Fisher Law Group do?
22        A    They are a bankruptcy and foreclosure
23   attorney in the state of Maryland.
24        Q    And when you -- what are the job functions of
25   a post-sale specialist and a presale specialist?

                                                                     9
 1        A    Post sale would be anytime after the
 2   foreclosure sale dealing with auditors, making sure
 3   that the sale was -- was complete and compliant with
 4   state rules and regulations and being able to transfer
 5   it over to REL.
 6             THE COURT REPORTER:  Transfer it over
 7        to . . .?
 8             THE WITNESS:  REL.
 9             THE COURT REPORTER:  Okay.  Please speak up.
10             THE WITNESS:  Sorry.
11   BY MR. FINNER:
12        Q    So the sale that you're talking about there
13   is the sale of the collateral, not the sale of the
14   legal services to a customer; is that right?
15        A    Yes.
16             MR. FINNER:  Okay.  I'm going to show you
17        what I'm marking as Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 1.
18             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 1 was marked for
19   identification.)
20   BY MR. FINNER:
21        Q      And after Mr. Di Spigna has a chance to
22   look at it, could you look at it and tell me whether
23   you've seen this document before.
24        A    I do not know that I have seen this specific
25   document before.

                                                                    10
 1        Q    Have you seen any document describing the
 2   need for Wells Fargo to have a witness here today?
 3        A    The subpoena.
 4        Q    Are you the person designated by Wells Fargo
 5   to testify here today?
 6        A    Yes.
 7        Q    And Exhibit No. 1 refers to Wells Fargo Home
 8   Mortgage, Inc.  As I understand your previous
 9   testimony, is it that you are unaware that there is
10   such an entity?
11        A    Such an entity no longer exists.
12        Q    Can you describe how that came to be the
13   state of affairs?
14        A    Wells Fargo Home Mortgage was bought by Wells
15   Fargo Bank, N.A., and therefore became a subsidiary
16   thereof and at that merger -- and I'm not sure if
17   "merger" is necessarily the correct legal term for --
18   for that joining -- the incorporation of Wells Fargo
19   Home Mortgage was no longer needed, as they were now
20   part of Wells Fargo Bank, N.A.
21        Q    And do you know when that acquisition took
22   place?
23        A    No, I do not.
24        Q    Have you seen any documents related to that
25   acquisition?

                                                                    11
 1        A    At one point possibly.
 2        Q    Do you know if Mr. Mortgagor's mortgage accounts
 3   with Wells Fargo Home Mortgage, Inc., were acquired by
 4   Wells Fargo Bank in that transaction?
 5        A    I do not know.
 6        Q    Do you know who currently owns Mr. Mortgagor's
 7   mortgage accounts on 11218 Deep Purple and 728 Indigo
 8   Street?
 9        A    Not from the top of my head.
10        Q    Are there documents or computer files that
11   are available to you that show -- just to start with
12   one of those, who owns the mortgage that is secured by
13   728 Indigo Street?
14        A    I believe that the note would reference who
15   owns that.
16        Q    Okay.  We'll get to that.
17             How did you first learn of Mr. Mortgagor's
18   accounts with Wells Fargo?
19        A    Through an e-mail correspondence from our
20   bankruptcy department in regards to a witness needed
21   for this deposition.
22        Q    Was there an individual at the bankruptcy
23   department that sent you that e-mail?
24        A    It was a -- a box, a general box.
25        Q    Okay.  And what did the e-mail say?

                                                                    12
 1        A    We have a form set up when other departments
 2   need expert witness testimony.  And they complete that
 3   form and send it --
 4        Q    So --
 5        A    -- so it -- it just states where -- when and
 6   where somebody is needed, and -- and a contact
 7   information for the attorney that we have on the file.
 8        Q    So it said you're going to Florida in July
 9   and probably didn't say congratulations; is that right?
10        A    Correct.
11        Q    Do you know how many loans Wells Fargo has
12   that are secured by collateral belonging to Max
13   Mortgagor?
14        A    I do not.
15        Q    Could you describe the status of each such
16   loan that you know about?
17        A    I only am aware of two, both of which are
18   currently within a Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
19        Q    And did you get -- did you get that knowledge
20   from your review of the file?
21        A    Yes.
22        Q    And when you say you're reviewing the file,
23   are you reviewing paper; are you reviewing images of
24   paper on computer; are you reviewing other electronic
25   data?

                                                                    13
 1        A    Yes.
 2        Q    Let's start with the paper, then.  What
 3   pieces of paper have you looked at in preparation for
 4   today?
 5        A    The origination files, which would include
 6   notes, deeds of trust.
 7        Q    And what electronic images of documents have
 8   you looked at between June 25th and today related to
 9   Mr. Mortgagor?
10        A    Pretty much everything that we have provided
11   to you prior to this deposition.
12        Q    Could you give a general description of what
13   those documents would be?
14        A    Payment history, screen notes, all
15   information that -- that we can obtain in regards to a
16   loan held within our systems.
17        Q    And could you describe in a general fashion
18   your understanding of how the information that you're
19   looking at in your system gets into your system?
20        A    They're input by processors within the Wells
21   Fargo Corporation.
22        Q    And how do they do that specifically?
23        A    Please clarify.
24        Q    Okay.  Well, we'll have some documents to
25   look at that we can get into.

                                                                    14
 1             Did you talk to anybody in preparation for
 2   today?
 3        A    I've talked to multiple people in preparation
 4   for today.
 5        Q    Can you name them, please?
 6        A    My attorney, for one, processors in the
 7   bankruptcy department, processors within our -- our
 8   departments that handle document savings on the system,
 9   and departments that hold those documents once they've
10   been purged off the system.  I also talked with my
11   supervisors and my management.
12        Q    And what are the names of your supervisors
13   and your management?
14        A    My supervisor is Mark Kline.  My management
15   is Dixie Teagle.
16        Q    Please spell "Teagle."
17        A    T-e-a-g -- (inaudible).
18             THE COURT REPORTER:  T-e-a-g . . .?
19             THE WITNESS:  L-e.
20   BY MR. FINNER:
21        Q    What is Mr. Kline's title?
22        A    Bankruptcy litigation supervisor.
23        Q    And what did you say to him and what did he
24   say to you?
25        A    I was concerned about getting the

                                                                    15
 1   documentation needed for this deposition in the matter
 2   of time that was given to us.  And he said he would
 3   contact our attorney's office and see whether we could
 4   get this postponed, which in long term happened.
 5        Q    Did you and Mr. Kline discuss the accounting
 6   for Mr. Mortgagor's mortgages or his payments on those
 7   mortgages?
 8        A    No.
 9        Q    What did you say to Ms. Teagle and what did
10   she say to you?
11        A    It was, again, a conversation in regards to
12   making sure that I was prepared for this.
13        Q    And what specifically did Ms. Teagle say to
14   make sure that you were prepared for this?
15        A    That my supervisor would handle it.
16        Q    And what do you mean when you say "prepared
17   for this"?
18        A    That we had the appropriate documentation
19   that you were requesting, that we had an understanding
20   of the loan prior to walking in this door.
21        Q    How do you learn of a bankruptcy account that
22   comes within your sphere of responsibilities?
23        A    Usually a motion or an adversary is filed,
24   and it either comes through our bankruptcy department
25   by certificate of notification, cert. of service, or

                                                                    16
 1   through our attorney's offices.
 2        Q    What do you do when you receive such a motion
 3   or document?
 4        A    We open a litigation file in the matter and
 5   start research and communication with our attorney and,
 6   hopefully, in the long run with opposing counsel.
 7        Q    Do you have any decisions to make at the
 8   outset whether to defend a motion, if it's a motion, or
 9   settle it?
10        A    In the initial receipt, no.
11        Q    Is that kind of decision-making done within
12   your job function?
13        A    At some points during the course of the case,
14   yes.
15        Q    What criteria are used to decide whether a
16   motion is to be defended?
17        A    If we're named.
18        Q    Is there a manual that sets forth any of that
19   thought or decision-making process?
20        A    Not that I'm aware of.
21        Q    Is there a manual that sets forth any
22   documentation or recordkeeping that accompanies the
23   receipt and processing of the bankruptcy court motion?
24        A    Not that I'm aware of.
25        Q    What training have you received on making

                                                                    17
 1   decisions regarding defending or settling bankruptcy
 2   court motions?
 3        A    On-the-job training.
 4        Q    And does that mean you haven't had any
 5   classes or computerized instruction courses or anything
 6   like that?
 7        A    Not in -- specifically regards to what you
 8   were asking.
 9        Q    In the time you've been at Wells Fargo, how
10   much time have you spent in a classroom training
11   setting?
12        A    Only a few hours.
13        Q    And what was covered in that?
14        A    General Wells Fargo information and
15   preemployment, need-to-know information.
16        Q    Was there any specific training, for example,
17   on what your computerized data systems contain and how
18   to access and use that information?
19        A    In a classroom setting?
20        Q    Yes.
21        A    No.
22        Q    Has Wells Fargo issued to you or informed you
23   of the existence of any manuals describing policies,
24   procedures -- policies or procedures in your job?
25        A    Please clarify.

                                                                    18
 1        Q    Okay.  Has Wells Fargo issued to you any
 2   manuals?
 3        A    In regards to . . .?
 4        Q    Do you know what a manual is?
 5        A    Yes, a bunch of documents that say something
 6   or direct you to something.  I'm not sure that I
 7   understand exactly what you are asking, though,
 8   because, yes, I've gotten batches of documents, but
 9   whether they truly consist or make up of a manual --
10   I'm not sure what your clarification there is.
11        Q    Okay.  I understand.  Just tell me what
12   documents you have received from Wells Fargo
13   instructing you how to do your job or any portion of
14   your job.
15        A    Most of the documents that I receive are not
16   telling me how to do my daily job.  They are business
17   memos or guidelines instituted by Wells Fargo as a
18   whole.
19        Q    To your knowledge, have you received any
20   documents telling you how to do your job or portions of
21   your job?
22             (There was an interruption and a discussion
23   off the record.)
24             MR. FINNER:  Are you ready?
25             THE WITNESS:  Would you kindly repeat the

                                                                    19
 1        question.
 2   BY MR. FINNER:
 3        Q    To your knowledge, have you received any
 4   documents in Wells Fargo instructing you on how to do
 5   your job or any portion of your job?
 6        A    Not to my knowledge.
 7        Q    After a file enters into litigation -- and
 8   I'm talking about specifically bankruptcy files here --
 9   do you receive any reports related to that file from
10   anybody within Wells Fargo?
11        A    Please clarify what you mean by "reports."
12        Q    Do you receive any documents or
13   communications -- and I intend that broad description
14   to include things that you receive electronically, as
15   well as in paper -- that describe any facet of what is
16   occurring with relation to the loan that is the subject
17   of the litigation file?
18        A    Yes.
19        Q    What?
20        A    E-mail communications with the -- the
21   attorneys, e-mail communications with any prior
22   processors, any documentation that I obtain from our --
23   our servicing area, any documentation that I would pull
24   off of the computer systems.  Everything that I have
25   provided for you prior to this deposition would have

                                                                    20
 1   constituted in that question.
 2        Q    Is there any particular information you
 3   expect to receive on any kind of periodic or regular
 4   basis after a bankruptcy file is opened that updates
 5   you as to new events or activity?
 6        A    Could you rephrase the question.
 7        Q    When there's an event in the loan -- and,
 8   again, we'll get into more detail when we look at the
 9   documents, but when there's an event in a loan, do you
10   expect somebody to send you a communication that says
11   an event took place, or do you expect not to receive
12   that in the ordinary course and simply pull it up on
13   the system when it's information that you want to know
14   about?
15        A    Are you talking while the loan has been
16   transferred to the litigation --
17        Q    Yes.
18        A    -- department?
19        Q    Yes.
20        A    There are -- I would expect notification.
21        Q    What are the criterion -- just so I
22   understand how something gets into your department, do
23   you open litigation files based simply on the
24   commencement of a bankruptcy involving a Wells Fargo
25   loan?

                                                                    21
 1        A    No.
 2        Q    Do you open litigation files based upon the
 3   filing of a plan of reorganization in a bankruptcy
 4   involving a Wells Fargo loan?
 5        A    No.
 6        Q    Do you open litigation files based upon the
 7   filing of an objection to a Wells Fargo claim?
 8        A    No.
 9        Q    Does your job function encompass the
10   preparation or filing of proofs of claim in bankruptcy?
11        A    No.
12        Q    Do you know how that is done within Wells
13   Fargo?
14        A    I have a general knowledge thereof.
15        Q    Could you describe that?
16        A    Well, the Proof of Claim is asking --
17   depending on the chapter of filing that it's in, it's
18   asking for what the debt is.  And we go into our
19   systems, determine what our system entails of that
20   debt, and then either personally file a claim or have
21   our attorney file a claim with those figures.
22        Q    And that all starts with figures that are
23   contained within the Wells Fargo data system on that
24   loan?
25        A    Yes.

                                                                    22
 1        Q    Is there any manual that you're aware of that
 2   describes what needs to be done in Wells Fargo in the
 3   preparation of a Proof of Claim?
 4        A    Not that I am aware of.
 5        Q    Is there any training given to Wells Fargo
 6   employees on that subject that you're aware of?
 7        A    I'm not from that department, so -- to my
 8   knowledge.
 9        Q    Do you know what steps are involved in
10   seeking relief from the automatic stay?
11        A    In a general sense.
12        Q    Can you describe your understanding of that
13   process?
14        A    Well, it depends on what chapter you are
15   speaking in regards to for bankruptcy.
16        Q    Well, let's start with Chapter 7, then.
17        A    Well, Chapter 7 would be -- if there hasn't
18   been any reaffirmation and the debt is not current,
19   then we would file for a motion for relief from stay
20   and allow the courts to rule on the motion for a leave.
21        Q    And what is done within Wells Fargo to make
22   that happen?
23        A    Well, the file, while it's in the bankruptcy
24   department, would be reviewed on the computer-kept
25   records, and a determination is made whether it fits

                                                                    23
 1   into the realm of needing a relief from stay or not.
 2        Q    And somebody makes a decision whether to have
 3   a motion for relief from stay filed?
 4        A    Yes.
 5        Q    Do you know if there's a title or a job
 6   function that goes along with the person that would
 7   make that decision?
 8        A    Not to my knowledge.
 9        Q    Is your department within the bankruptcy
10   department, or is it separate from the bankruptcy --
11        A    Separate.
12        Q    And is it fair to say that you've never in
13   any chapter of a bankruptcy proceeding made a decision
14   or participated in the making of a decision whether to
15   file a motion for relief from stay?
16        A    No.
17        Q    It's not fair to say that?
18        A    No, it's not fair to say that.
19        Q    Okay.  Can you describe what your role is in
20   making decisions whether to file motions for relief
21   from stay?
22        A    Well, as I have stated, I'm within the
23   litigation department and, therefore, if the file is
24   litigated and it comes a point during that litigation
25   where a motion for relief is the probable cause of

                                                                    24
 1   that, correct cause of action to complete or -- or
 2   resolve the litigation, then I make that decision.
 3        Q    Have you been involved in making any
 4   decisions to file motions for relief from stay with
 5   respect to loans by Max Mortgagor?
 6        A    No.
 7        Q    Does Wells Fargo have any manual that you're
 8   aware of that describes how the decision to seek relief
 9   from stay should be reached?
10        A    Not to my knowledge.
11        Q    Is there any training that you're aware of --
12        A    Not to my knowledge.
13        Q    -- on that subject?
14             Do you know how Wells Fargo decides whether
15   to send a witness to bankruptcy court hearings on
16   motions for relief from the automatic stay?
17        A    I'm sorry.  Could you repeat the question.
18        Q    Do you know how Wells Fargo decides whether
19   to send a witness to bankruptcy court hearings on
20   motions for relief from the automatic stay?
21        A    We receive notification from the attorney on
22   the case stating that a witness is needed, and then if
23   there is any witness available, one will be assigned.
24        Q    And if no such notification is -- so Wells
25   Fargo never sends out a witness unless the attorney

                                                                    25
 1   says a witness is needed; is that correct?
 2        A    How else would we know one would be needed?
 3        Q    Do you receive notice of the date for
 4   hearings on motions for relief from the automatic stay
 5   in the ordinary course?
 6        A    In the ordinary course of Wells Fargo
 7   business or in the ordinary course of my job?
 8        Q    In the ordinary course of files that you have
 9   seen when a motion for relief from the automatic stay
10   has been filed, do you learn what -- the dates that are
11   set by the court for hearing those motions?
12        A    In the -- yes.
13        Q    And how do you learn that?
14        A    By notification, either from the certificate
15   of service on the notice for the hearing, or through
16   our attorneys.
17        Q    Does Wells Fargo participate in electronic
18   case filing systems of bankruptcy courts in the U.S.?
19        A    I do not know that answer.
20        Q    Does your department involve itself with any
21   mortgages that are secured by property outside of the
22   U.S.?
23        A    No, not that I'm aware of.
24             MR. DI SPIGNA:  Do you want water?
25             THE WITNESS:  Yes, please.

                                                                    26
 1   BY MR. FINNER:
 2        Q    Does your department involve itself with the
 3   decision on whether or how to vote with respect to
 4   confirmation of a plan in a bankruptcy case?
 5        A    No.
 6        Q    Do you know how that decision is reached
 7   within Wells Fargo?
 8        A    I do not know.
 9        Q    Does your department involve itself with the
10   decision whether to have a bankruptcy court determine
11   the value of collateral for Wells Fargo loans?
12        A    Depends on if the case is contained within my
13   department for other reasons.
14        Q    And a case is contained within your
15   department when a motion or other action is filed
16   against Wells Fargo; is that correct?
17        A    For the most part, yes.
18        Q    Okay.  And, if it's not in your department,
19   do you know what Wells Fargo's decision-making process
20   is in determining whether or not to have a court
21   establish the value of the collateral?
22        A    I do not know.
23        Q    In your department do you ever make a
24   decision whether to make a claim against a mortgage
25   insurance policy?

                                                                    27
 1        A    Yes.
 2        Q    And what steps are involved in reaching that
 3   decision?
 4        A    Complete review of the file, determination to
 5   see if it would fit within claim limits and within the
 6   policy itself.
 7        Q    And does your file contain a copy of the
 8   policy for you to review in making that decision?
 9        A    Our file -- we would request that information
10   in researching the file.
11        Q    And who do you request that information from?
12        A    Multiple sources, depending on how the file
13   is held.
14        Q    Describe to me the various ways in which
15   files can -- that Wells Fargo servicing can be held.
16        A    We have an imaging system in which the
17   documents are contained on a -- in a
18   computer-generated -- (inaudible) --
19             THE COURT REPORTER:  I'm sorry.  "We have an
20        imaging system in which the documents" . . .?
21             THE WITNESS:  Are held on -- within the
22        computer that can be accessed readily.  We also
23        have origination files where it is an actual,
24        physical file that are maintained at off-site
25        locations.  In some cases we already have that

                                                                    28
 1        copy within our file from other sources that I'm
 2        aware of.
 3   BY MR. FINNER:
 4        Q    When Wells Fargo has purchased a mortgage
 5   insurance policy, does it, in the ordinary course,
 6   retain a copy of that policy?
 7        A    Yes.
 8        Q    And is there a particular department or job
 9   function that would be responsible for maintaining that
10   mortgage insurance policy?
11        A    I do not know.
12        Q    Have you ever seen a mortgage insurance
13   policy related to any Max R. Mortgagor loan?
14        A    Not to my knowledge.
15        Q    Have you ever seen any communications
16   regarding a claim against a mortgage insurance policy
17   related to a Max R. Mortgagor loan?
18        A    Not to my knowledge.
19        Q    Have you ever participated in any discussions
20   or decision-making regarding a claim on a mortgage
21   insurance policy related to a Max Mortgagor loan?
22        A    No.
23        Q    Do you, in the course of your job function,
24   make reports to the owner of a loan that is within a
25   bankruptcy filing regarding any of the events we just

                                                                    29
 1   discussed:  Proof of Claim, motion for relief from
 2   stay, claim against the mortgage insurance?
 3        A    Yes.
 4        Q    And what form do those reports take?
 5        A    I notify my upper-level management,
 6   supervisor/manager, that I believe that is needed,
 7   that -- that the case calls for it.  And then usually
 8   we have a specific e-mail contact for somebody within
 9   that noteholder's company that we contact and advise of
10   the situation.
11        Q    And when you say, "we," I guess it's
12   Mr. Kline or Ms. Teagle that actually initiates that
13   contact with the note owner?
14        A    Usually.
15             MR. FINNER:  I'm going to show you a document
16        that I'm marking as Plaintiff's Exhibit 2.
17             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 2 was marked for
18   identification.)
19   BY MR. FINNER:
20        Q    Let me know when you're ready.
21        A    Proceed.
22        Q    Have you seen this document before?
23        A    Yes.
24        Q    Can you describe what it is?
25        A    It is a foreclosure complaint.

                                                                    30
 1        Q    Do you know what property it's on?
 2        A    It would be in regards to a Indigo Street,
 3   Jacksonville, Florida, address.
 4        Q    Could you describe generally your knowledge
 5   of the steps within Wells Fargo that lead to a
 6   foreclosure complaint being filed?
 7        A    Default on the loan.
 8        Q    And does that automatically result in a
 9   foreclosure complaint being filed?
10        A    Well, it would kick it into the foreclosure
11   process.  We would send out initial notification that
12   the mortgage is in default, and then we would -- if the
13   default is not cured within the acceleration time
14   frame, a complaint would be filed.
15        Q    Do you use any particular system or software
16   to monitor the progress of foreclosure proceedings on
17   Wells Fargo service loans?
18        A    Yes.
19        Q    What's the name of that system or software?
20        A    Fidelity, CPI.  It has multiple names.
21        Q    And is that maintained within Wells Fargo, or
22   is it maintained by an outside vendor?
23        A    It's maintained within Wells Fargo.
24        Q    In preparation for today's proceeding, did
25   you review any information on the CPI or Fidelity

                                                                    31
 1   system with respect to Mr. Mortgagor's loans?
 2        A    Yes.  And that information was provided to
 3   you.
 4        Q    What reports are made by Wells Fargo to the
 5   note owner in connection with the foreclosure process?
 6        A    I do not know.
 7        Q    Who's the owner of the loan that's the
 8   subject of Exhibit No. 2?
 9        A    At the time of this filing it states that the
10   plaintiff owns and holds the mortgage note, and the
11   plaintiff is listed as Wells Fargo Home Mortgage, Inc.
12        Q    Do you know whether Wells Fargo Home
13   Mortgage, Inc., still owns the loan that's
14   collateralized by the Indigo Street property?
15        A    I do not know.
16        Q    Is there any document or function in your
17   system that would tell you who owns the loan that's
18   collateralized by the Indigo Street property?
19        A    There may be.  I'm not aware of it.
20        Q    Do the systems that are available to you
21   ordinarily tell you who the owner of the loan is?
22        A    Not ordinarily.  It tells us that -- we're
23   the servicer and as the servicer we take certain
24   actions.
25        Q    And is it your testimony that -- this

                                                                    32
 1   particular loan -- Wells Fargo is both the owner and
 2   the servicer?
 3        A    That is what -- indicated by the document
 4   that you gave me when it was filed.
 5        Q    I believe you told me shortly after we
 6   started that the note would reflect who the owner is.
 7   Is that reflected in Exhibit No. 2?
 8        A    The note is not contained within Exhibit
 9   No. 2.  The mortgage is contained within Exhibit No. 2.
10   And let me clarify.  It would be a note and any
11   assignments thereof.
12        Q    And are those assignments ordinarily
13   contained on Wells Fargo's imaging system?
14        A    Ordinarily, or contained within the land
15   records of the county in which the property is
16   maintained.
17        Q    In preparing for today's examination, did you
18   determine who owned the loan that's collateralized by
19   the Indigo Street property?
20        A    Could you repeat that?
21        Q    In preparing for today's examination, did you
22   determine who owns the loan that's collateralized by
23   the Indigo Street property?
24        A    If that knowledge was in my head at some
25   point, it is no longer there, so I do not know.

                                                                    33
 1        Q    Was a counterclaim filed to the foreclosure
 2   complaint?
 3        A    I believe so, but I do not have reference
 4   thereof in front of me.
 5        Q    When a counterclaim is filed is your
 6   department notified?
 7        A    Usually.
 8        Q    Did you determine whether your department had
 9   been involved in the defense of any counterclaim in the
10   foreclosure proceeding involving any of Mr. Mortgagor's
11   loans?
12        A    I did not.  It depends on the time frame of
13   when the -- the counterclaim was filed whether my
14   department was even active at that time.
15        Q    When was your department created?
16        A    I am unaware.
17        Q    What steps are involved in defending a
18   counterclaim to a mortgage foreclosure proceeding?
19        A    Well, we research what the complaints of the
20   filer are, determine the validity thereof by
21   researching the complete mortgage file, and determine
22   at that point whether a settlement or a continued
23   defense of the action is called for.
24        Q    Is there any manual that you're aware of that
25   describes any facet of the defense of a counterclaim in

                                                                    34
 1   a foreclosure proceeding?
 2        A    Not to my knowledge.
 3        Q    Does Wells Fargo provide any training related
 4   to that subject to its employees?
 5        A    On-the-job training is what I was provided.
 6        Q    What reports of a counterclaim defense are
 7   made to the owner of the loan?
 8        A    Please clarify.
 9        Q    When Wells Fargo defends a counterclaim in a
10   state court foreclosure proceeding, does it in the
11   ordinary course make any reports regarding that
12   function to the owner of the loan?
13        A    Well, an attorney would have been hired to
14   represent us and an answer would be filed to their
15   complaint, so the borrower -- the filer of that
16   complaint would be notified via the answer.
17        Q    I'm talking about the owner of the loan, not
18   the owner of the collateral.
19        A    Oh, I'm sorry.  You mean, whoever holds the
20   note, would they be notified of the countercomplaint --
21   depends on what accusations are contained within the
22   complaint.
23        Q    In your review of the file did you determine
24   whether there was any report made to the owner of the
25   note collateralized by Indigo Street that a

                                                                    35
 1   counterclaim had been filed?
 2        A    I did not -- unaware of reviewing any such
 3   information.
 4        Q    When you have files that are in litigation,
 5   does communication with the loan's owner ordinarily go
 6   through Wells Fargo from outside counsel, or does Wells
 7   Fargo instruct its attorneys to deal directly with the
 8   owner of the loan?
 9        A    In most cases communication goes directly
10   through Wells.
11             MR. FINNER:  I'm marking Composite Exhibit
12        No. 3.
13             (Plaintiff's Composite Exhibit No. 3 was
14   marked for identification.)
15   BY MR. FINNER:
16        Q    And if you could review that and just let us
17   know when you're ready to proceed.
18        A    Okay.
19        Q    Have you ever seen this document before?
20        A    No.
21        Q    Have you seen other documents like it?
22        A    Yes.
23        Q    Can you describe what this document is?
24        A    It is an affidavit in regards to amounts on a
25   loan at a given time frame.

                                                                    36
 1        Q    Do you know what steps are involved in
 2   preparing one of these affidavits?
 3        A    Our -- in the normal course, our attorney
 4   prepares them with figures provided by our company.
 5             THE COURT REPORTER:  By . . .?
 6             THE WITNESS:  Our company.
 7   BY MR. FINNER:
 8        Q    Is there any manual or training that you're
 9   aware of that Wells Fargo provides its employees
10   regarding the preparation or signing of summary
11   judgment affidavits in foreclosure?
12        A    Not to my knowledge.
13        Q    What reports of the preparation, signing, or
14   filing of summary judgment affidavits in foreclosure
15   cases are ordinarily made to the note owner?
16        A    I do not know.
17        Q    Do you know Nadine Bonsick?
18        A    Not personally.
19        Q    Do you know Leslie Crenshaw?
20        A    Not personally.
21        Q    Do you know if they're still employed by
22   Wells Fargo?
23        A    I do not.
24        Q    Have you spoken to either of them regarding
25   this matter?

                                                                    37
 1        A    No.
 2        Q    I'd like you to turn to the second page of
 3   Exhibit No. 3 and read Paragraph 4 and tell me if that
 4   refers to any particular sums of money that are owed
 5   Wells Fargo or were owed Wells Fargo.
 6        A    It says, "4.  Plaintiff, Wells Fargo Home
 7   Mortgage, Inc., is owed the following sums of money as
 8   of 10/03/03 as set forth in attached Exhibit 'A.'"
 9        Q    And is it your understanding that Ms. Bonsick
10   signed this affidavit on August 8th of 2003?
11        A    That is what is stated within the document.
12        Q    Turn to the third page and tell me if you've
13   ever seen a document like that page 3 of Exhibit 3
14   before.
15        A    Yes.
16        Q    Is that something generated from a Wells
17   Fargo system?
18        A    Yes.
19        Q    Is there a name for this document within
20   Wells Fargo's procedures?
21        A    If there is, I do not know it.
22        Q    And what is a preforeclosure specialist?
23        A    A person within the Wells Fargo Corporation
24   that handles files prior to foreclosure action.
25        Q    And is it fair to say that the signature on

                                                                    38
 1   page 3 of Exhibit No. 3 is probably a misspelling and
 2   it's supposed to be "preforeclosure" rather than
 3   "pre-forelosure"?
 4        A    Correct.
 5        Q    Have you ever seen -- I mean, is that a
 6   particular spelling that you've ever seen used before?
 7        A    No.  It is obviously a mistype.
 8        Q    And do you know how in the preparation of one
 9   of these the amount that's given as the principal
10   balance would be determined?
11        A    It is pulled directly off of our system.
12        Q    And is there a particular reporting function
13   system that provides that information?
14        A    There are multiple reporting functions that
15   provide that information, including the payment
16   history.
17        Q    Is there a particular reporting function that
18   you're aware of that would generate a document that
19   looks like page 3 of Exhibit No. 3?
20        A    There is a reporting function that generates
21   letters.  Whether this specific letter was generated
22   through that function, I do not know.
23        Q    How many documents would you say in the
24   course of your time at Wells Fargo you've seen that
25   look like page 3 of Exhibit No. 3?

                                                                    39
 1        A    A handful.
 2        Q    Is it a standard reporting format?
 3        A    It is similar.  Whether it is exact, I do not
 4   know.
 5        Q    And is there a -- when you say it's similar
 6   to a reporting format, are you saying it's similar to a
 7   reporting format that you've used?
 8        A    It's similar to other letters that I know
 9   report on our system.
10        Q    Okay.  And --
11        A    Like I said, whether this specific letter was
12   reported through this system, I do not have knowledge
13   to attest.
14        Q    And this particular report does not have a
15   common name that you're aware of?
16        A    It -- it is possible that it does.  I do not
17   know it.
18        Q    Okay.  The second numerical line of page 3,
19   where it gives interest and it gives a period --
20        A    Uh-huh.
21        Q    -- followed by an interest rate and a per
22   diem, do you know how that's determined?
23        A    It would be generated off of the system.  The
24   interest rate is as set in the note and mortgage.
25   Per diem is a breakdown of that interest over the year

                                                                    40
 1   divided by the amount of days in that year.
 2        Q    And is that a calculation that's made by the
 3   system or by the person generating the report?
 4        A    By the system.
 5        Q    The next line, "allowable late charges," do
 6   you know what that line would refer to?
 7        A    The late charges that are allowed for the
 8   deed and trust and note.
 9        Q    Is there a -- is there a kind of late charge
10   that to your knowledge does not fall within the
11   category of allowable late charges?
12        A    Yes.
13        Q    And what sort of a late charge would that be?
14        A    We do not on a regular basis charge late
15   charges while a borrower is under Chapter 13
16   bankruptcy.
17        Q    And is that the only kind of late charge that
18   you're aware of that would fall into this allowable
19   late charges category?
20        A    Within my knowledge.
21        Q    Tell me what the next line refers to after
22   the late charges.
23        A    The per month in -- 13.25?
24        Q    I'm sorry.  The next line after that.
25        A    "Suspense balance"?

                                                                    41
 1        Q    Uh-huh.
 2        A    Funds received on a loan that are
 3   insufficient to make a full payment are put into a
 4   suspense account until funds are received to make a
 5   full payment and be applied to the loan.
 6        Q    And is that procedure described in any
 7   written materials that you have reviewed in the course
 8   of your job performance?
 9        A    Not to my knowledge.
10        Q    You're not aware of any manual or instruction
11   that governs the creation and accounting for a suspense
12   balance?
13        A    Not to my knowledge.
14        Q    Are you aware of any documents related to
15   Mr. Mortgagor's loans secured by the Indigo Street
16   property that discuss the creation of or accounting for
17   a suspense balance?
18        A    Well, the accounting for -- in a suspense
19   balance would be maintained within the payment history
20   that you were provided.  "Creation of" is creation with
21   the loan.  It is always there.  It's always been there.
22   As for any manuals, I -- I am unaware of any.
23        Q    Are you aware of any language in Mr. Mortgagor's
24   mortgage, which I think is attached to Exhibit No. 2
25   there, that provides for the creation of or accounting

                                                                    42
 1   for a suspense balance?
 2        A    I have not thoroughly reviewed every, single
 3   line of his deed of trust or mortgage in order to
 4   determine that.
 5        Q    Have you seen the note on Mr. Mortgagor's loan
 6   that's secured by the Indigo Street property?
 7        A    I believe if I have reviewed it, it has been
 8   provided to you.
 9        Q    Are you aware of any language within the note
10   that describes, discusses, or provides for the creation
11   of or accounting for a suspense balance?
12        A    Again, I have not read the note line for line
13   in order to be able to determine that.
14        Q    I don't know why; there's only about 600
15   pages of documents here.
16             Let's go on to the next line.  And describe
17   what that next line on page 3 of Exhibit No. 3
18   describes.
19        A    "Escrow balance."  Escrow is the account in
20   which mortgage, taxes, and insurance are held.  That
21   would be any outstanding balances on that account.
22        Q    And when the line reflects a zero balance,
23   does that mean that you're not holding any of
24   Mr. Mortgagor's money in escrow in that capacity?
25        A    That -- that there is no positive funds in

                                                                    43
 1   the escrow account at that time.
 2        Q    Move on to the next line and describe your
 3   understanding of what that means and how it was
 4   created.
 5        A    "Escrow Advance" is the negative side of the
 6   escrow balance.  When there is not enough funds in the
 7   escrow balance to pay for hazard, taxes, mortgage
 8   insurance, things of those natures that would normally
 9   fall under the escrow category, Wells Fargo, in order
10   to protect the interest of the property, will forward
11   those funds on behalf of the borrower, expecting at
12   some point that those funds would be repaid through
13   their mortgage payments.
14        Q    And is that $1,015.54 sum on that line, is
15   that a total of the four lines below it?
16        A    I am not that quick with math, but that would
17   be the assumption in reading what is here.
18        Q    Okay.  And, so, when it says, "Tax Advances,"
19   "$0.00," is the system reflecting that Wells Fargo has
20   not paid any local governmental authorities for
21   property tax on the collateral?
22        A    No.
23        Q    What does it mean?
24        A    It means that there aren't any current
25   outstanding tax advances on this property; in other

                                                                    44
 1   words, if funds were disbursed for taxes, they have
 2   already been repaid through the monthly mortgage
 3   payments.
 4        Q    And when a monthly mortgage payment comes in,
 5   is there a particular order in which Wells Fargo
 6   applies the funds?
 7        A    Per the deed of trust and note.
 8        Q    So the deed of trust and note would specify
 9   whether the first dollar off of that payment would go
10   to principal, interest, taxes or insurance?
11        A    To my knowledge, most deeds of trust notes do
12   provide for that.
13        Q    And is the system that generates reports like
14   this programmed to reflect particular deeds of trust
15   and the way they account for incoming payments?
16        A    I do not know.
17        Q    The next line down, hazard insurance
18   advances, what would that refer to?
19        A    That would be in regards to funds that were
20   disbursed to pay for hazard insurance on the property.
21        Q    That had not been paid back as of the date of
22   the report?
23        A    Yes.
24        Q    And the next line below that, what does that
25   refer to?

                                                                    45
 1        A    The mortgage insurance amounts --
 2        Q    What does that --
 3        A    -- that have been paid out and have not been
 4   paid back to date --
 5        Q    I'm sorry?
 6        A    -- of the report.
 7        Q    What does that mean?
 8        A    Mortgage insurance?
 9        Q    Uh-huh.
10        A    To be honest, I'm not sure I can provide a
11   sufficient answer for that.
12        Q    Consistent with your testimony on the other
13   items, would the sums that are reflected in this line
14   that says "MIP/PMI Advances" be reflected in the note
15   and deed -- the note and deed of trust on the Indigo
16   Street property?
17        A    As I have stated, I have not read the note
18   and the deed of trust line for line to -- to have
19   knowledge of whether it was provided for in that.
20        Q    Based upon all the materials that you
21   reviewed before today, do you know whether Wells Fargo
22   has, in fact, made payments to any company for what
23   would be characterized as MIP or PMI advances?
24             MR. DI SPIGNA:  With regard to Indigo
25        Street?

                                                                    46
 1             MR. FINNER:  Yes, with regard to Indigo
 2        Street.  Thanks, Ric.
 3             THE WITNESS:  I do not know.
 4   BY MR. FINNER:
 5        Q    And is there a report in the system that
 6   would tell you that?
 7        A    Not to my knowledge.
 8        Q    Is there a difference between MIP and PMI?
 9        A    If there is, I would not be able to verbalize
10   an answer of how to distinguish the difference.
11        Q    Okay.  I'd like you to read through the next
12   couple of pages of Exhibit No. 3.
13             And, again, if you could just read
14   Paragraph 4 of the fifth page of Exhibit No. 3 and tell
15   me if you can determine when that particular page was
16   signed.
17        A    Four reads, "Plaintiff, Wells Fargo Home
18   Mortgage, Inc., is owed the following sums of money as
19   of 10/21" of '03, "as set forth in Exhibit 'A.'"
20             The signatory line indicates that it was
21   signed August 25th of '03.
22        Q    And if you can then go to the next page and
23   tell me if there's a date on that report.
24        A    It states that the figures are good through
25   10/21 of '03.

                                                                    47
 1        Q    And at the top of that page -- and if there
 2   is a date, do you know what that date would indicate?
 3        A    8/26 of '03 would probably indicate the date
 4   that the letter was generated.
 5        Q    Okay.  So do you know if it's likely that
 6   Ms. Crenshaw would have signed an affidavit on
 7   August 25th that had attached a report that was
 8   generated the following day?
 9        A    I don't know how to answer that.
10        Q    Does Wells Fargo have any policies or
11   procedures regarding the attaching of reports after
12   affidavits are prepared or signed?
13        A    Not to my knowledge.  I do not know that
14   answer.
15        Q    This isn't a situation that you've ever come
16   into contact with in your time at Wells Fargo?
17        A    No.  I have not seen that before.
18        Q    Ordinarily, affidavits are signed with the
19   information already attached; is that your
20   understanding?
21        A    Any affidavit that I have signed and/or
22   notarized for my department contains all the
23   information and/or all the attachments that we are
24   signing on behalf of.
25        Q    And if . . .

                                                                    48
 1             Do you know if a summary judgment was ever
 2   entered on the Indigo Street foreclosure?
 3        A    I do not know.
 4        Q    I think there's a reference on -- yes.  Can
 5   you turn to the last page of Exhibit No. 3, please.
 6   And look at the line -- two lines above where the
 7   "pre-forelosure" specialist signed.  And there's an
 8   item for 203K disbursement.  What does that refer
 9   to?
10        A    I do not know.  The disbursement is zero, so
11   I do not feel it of effect.
12        Q    You've never actually run into such a
13   disbursement having been made so that you would have
14   had to figure out what it was?
15        A    Yes.
16        Q    Have you ever heard the term "203K" before?
17        A    Not to my knowledge.
18             MR. FINNER:  We've been at this for an hour,
19        and I want to take a quick break, but you guys
20        probably had to get rolling pretty early this
21        morning, so tell me what you want to do in terms
22        of breaking for lunch.
23             THE COURT REPORTER:  Do you want to stay on
24        the record?
25             MR. FINNER:  We can go off.

                                                                    49
 1             (A recess was taken.)
 2   BY MR. FINNER:
 3        Q    Okay.  We just finished Exhibit 3.  And
 4   let's . . .
 5             MR. DI SPIGNA:  Is this actually how they
 6        filed the affidavit, with two separate . . .
 7             MR. FINNER:  No.  That's three of them
 8        globbed together.
 9             MR. DI SPIGNA:  Okay.  Oh, it's a composite.
10             (Plaintiff's Composite Exhibit No. 4 was
11   marked for identification.)
12   BY MR. FINNER:
13        Q    Okay.  Here's No. 4.
14             Ready?
15        A    (Nods head).
16        Q    Could you describe what Exhibit 4 is.
17        A    Monthly mortgage statements.
18        Q    And how are they generated?
19        A    Information contained within our systems are
20   sent to a -- outsource printers that print these on
21   Wells Fargo's behalf.
22        Q    What's the name of the printer?
23        A    It has recently changed.  I'm unaware of the
24   correct title for the recent change.
25        Q    Is that done automatically, or is there a

                                                                    50
 1   person involved in the process?
 2        A    Please clarify.  What is done automatically?
 3        Q    Does anybody at Wells Fargo review the
 4   information that goes onto these documents before
 5   they're sent to the printer and printed and mailed in
 6   the ordinary course?
 7        A    Not to my knowledge.
 8        Q    In files that are involved in litigation such
 9   that they come into your department, is there then any
10   point in the statement process where a person reviews
11   the information before it goes out?
12        A    Once a file has become litigated, because at
13   that point we are fully aware of attorney-client
14   privileges and things of that nature, we have -- in
15   most cases, we will actually stop the mortgage
16   statements from being generated until the litigation is
17   resolved and all parties are compliant with -- with
18   what the system is showing.
19        Q    Have you done that with respect to
20   Mr. Mortgagor's statements on Indigo Street?
21        A    As recently, yes.
22        Q    After, I guess, the last statement that's
23   shown in Exhibit No. 4; is that right?
24        A    That would have been prior to me receiving
25   the file, so, yes.

                                                                    51
 1        Q    Are you aware of any manuals or guidelines
 2   within Wells Fargo that describe how statements are
 3   prepared or what information should go on them?
 4        A    I do not know.
 5        Q    And are any reports or summaries of the
 6   monthly statement-generating process given by Wells
 7   Fargo to the owner of the note in the ordinary course?
 8        A    Not that I am aware of.
 9        Q    Let's start on the first page of Exhibit
10   No. 4.  And what I'd like you to do, Ms. Hirzel, is
11   just go line by line down the statement and tell me
12   what your understanding of the information that's
13   contained in each line of the statement is supposed to
14   show.  And probably the top, right corner is the place
15   to start.
16        A    Monthly mortgage statement, of course, is
17   addressing what this document is.  Statement date would
18   be the date that this -- the figures contained therein
19   was -- were generated.  Loan number would be your loan
20   indicator to indicate which -- if you have more than
21   one property with us, which property we're referring
22   to --
23        Q    Backing up to the statement date, then, that
24   is the date of the information on the statement and not
25   necessarily the date on which it is printed or sent --

                                                                    52
 1        A    Not necessarily.
 2        Q    -- is that accurate?  Okay.
 3             And is the loan number contained on the
 4   mortgage and note in most files?
 5        A    Not to my knowledge.  I believe the loan
 6   number is addressed with the "hello" and "goodbye"
 7   letters that -- that people receive on mortgages, but I
 8   may be inaccurate that there is some other
 9   documentation contained in the origination file that
10   would indicate a loan number.
11        Q    Do you recall seeing them on HUD 1 closing
12   statements?
13        A    I believe, yes, that -- that at least a
14   precursory loan number is given at -- on a HUD 1.
15        Q    Okay.  Let's talks about this line over to
16   the left there that says, "For Informational Purposes."
17   Do you have an understanding of what that's supposed to
18   reflect?
19        A    Because there are times between when the
20   statement is generated and when the mortgagor receives
21   it -- in that time frame some information may change.
22   Therefore, this is just information; it may not be what
23   is current.  And, also, the statement is just for
24   courtesy information of what's going on on a person's
25   account.  It's not a demand for payment.  And we are

                                                                    53
 1   not trying to interfere with anybody's bankruptcy or
 2   any other action that they have going on in sending
 3   these out.
 4        Q    Okay.  Below that line there are two lines of
 5   computer-generated numbers or numbers and letters.  Do
 6   you know what they refer to?
 7        A    I do not.
 8        Q    And where is the customer's address derived
 9   from?
10        A    Information contained within our computer
11   systems.
12        Q    Is it in -- does Wells Fargo maintain a
13   particular database with regard to each loan that it
14   services?
15        A    Each loan is contained within the Fidelity
16   system.
17        Q    Okay.  Does the Fidelity system have
18   separate -- if you have a customer that has more than
19   one loan, does the Fidelity system have a separate
20   database for each loan, or does it tie them all
21   together under your one customer?
22        A    No.  They're -- each loan is accessed via the
23   loan number and would not contain other information in
24   regards to any other loan.
25        Q    And there's not even a flag that says that

                                                                    54
 1   this is a multiple-loan customer?
 2        A    If there is a flag, it was internally put in
 3   by -- by an internal person.
 4        Q    Okay.  In the summary section of this first
 5   page of Exhibit No. 4, it gives a payment amount.
 6        A    Uh-huh.
 7        Q    And if I understand your description of how
 8   statements are submitted, is it fair to say that that
 9   amount was calculated and generated by the computer
10   without any human intervention?
11        A    Yes.
12        Q    Do you know how the parameters by which that
13   calculation is done by the computer are put into the
14   computer?
15        A    Upon origination the terms of the note and
16   mortgage are put into the computer, giving the computer
17   the interest rate and principal balance of the loan in
18   order for it to be able to determine what a monthly
19   payment is.
20        Q    And are there any events that you're aware of
21   that would lead to somebody at Wells Fargo changing or
22   reinputting or updating those parameters in the system?
23        A    Yes.
24        Q    What are those events?
25        A    A loan modification.  If there is a huge

                                                                    55
 1   outstanding escrow balance, an analysis of the payments
 2   will be done and -- and the escrow balance on the loan
 3   would change and therefore change the payment amount,
 4   and Chapter 11 bankruptcies where the plan calls for
 5   pretty much -- for lack of better terms -- a loan
 6   modification.
 7        Q    How many such bankruptcies have you come
 8   across in your time at Wells Fargo where it's, as you
 9   describe, essentially a loan modification of the plan?
10        A    I have only dealt with two.
11        Q    Mr. Mortgagor's and one other?
12        A    Yes.
13        Q    Do you know if there's a function within the
14   computer to which the next line below the current
15   monthly payment, the overdue payments, is tied?
16        A    Could you --
17        Q    Yeah.  Does the Fidelity system ordinarily
18   reflect a date from which that overdue payment amount
19   could be calculated?
20        A    Yes.  From the beginning of the loan there is
21   the initial payment date.  From that date, the payments
22   are applied at a contractual running rate.  The
23   computer would automatically know what that contractual
24   date on the loan is.  And, therefore, the overdue
25   payments would be its calculation from that date to the

                                                                    56
 1   date the statement was generated times the payment
 2   amount.
 3        Q    Okay.  And is that also going to be reflected
 4   in the next line of unpaid late charges?
 5        A    That would be a separate calculation because
 6   payments must be per the deed of trust note, but on a
 7   general basis, payments have to be 15 days late in
 8   order to be assessed a late charge.  In some cases,
 9   just because the payment was overdue past the 16th,
10   they paid it, but they assessed a late charge, so there
11   may be late charges that are reflected that the payment
12   has been paid, but it was paid late.  It's a separate
13   calculation.
14        Q    Does the filing of a bankruptcy proceeding
15   result in a change to the manner in which either the
16   overdue payments or the unpaid late charges are
17   reflected or calculated?
18        A    In a normal course of a -- any bankruptcy
19   filing?
20        Q    (Nods head).
21        A    Not necessarily.
22        Q    Is there a different procedure for different
23   types of bankruptcy filings?
24        A    Well, in a Chapter 13 they're a preimposed
25   petition, so you would need to -- to take into

                                                                    57
 1   effect -- that -- so these figures would not be
 2   accurate in regards to what is owed, say, post
 3   petitionally [phonetic].  They'd be accurate as regards
 4   to what is contractually due on the loan.
 5        Q    And does Wells Fargo make any alterations in
 6   the Chapter 13 example you give so that some figure
 7   other than what's shown as contractually due is
 8   reflected on the monthly statements?
 9        A    On a normal course of business, as far as I
10   am aware, we cease normal monthly mortgage statement
11   processing during a Chapter 13 bankruptcy due to that
12   confusion.
13        Q    Do you cease normal monthly statement
14   processing in a Chapter 11?
15        A    Not to my knowledge.
16        Q    Have you ever had any -- have you ever
17   reviewed any materials in the course of your time at
18   Wells Fargo that discuss why or why not?
19        A    Not to my knowledge.
20        Q    Have you ever discussed with anybody at Wells
21   Fargo anything related to the generation of monthly
22   statements for borrowers who are in Chapter 11?
23        A    No.
24        Q    Over on the right on this block there's a
25   line given as unpaid principal balance.

                                                                    58
 1        A    Uh-huh.
 2        Q    Can you tell what that line is supposed to
 3   describe?
 4        A    It would describe what it states what our
 5   system is showing as the principal balance on the loan
 6   that has yet to be paid.
 7        Q    As of the statement date?
 8        A    Yes.
 9        Q    And how is the interest rate determined?
10        A    Per the deed and trust and note.
11        Q    And is that ever modified in the system from
12   the amount reflected by the note?
13        A    In order to adjust an interest rate on the
14   system, there is a process that needs to be completed.
15        Q    Is that a process that you personally have
16   ever been involved with or been required to do as part
17   of your job function at Wells --
18        A    Yes.
19        Q    -- Fargo?
20             Can you describe the process step by step as
21   you understand it?
22        A    It is a -- it's what we call a "critical
23   field maintenance process," in which we have to not
24   only state what the rate -- the changes -- what the
25   system reflects is currently, but what we need to have

                                                                    59
 1   changed, i.e., in this case you were referring to an
 2   interest rate change.  Because interest, principal, are
 3   critical fields in regards to a mortgage, there has to
 4   be very specific backup documentation provided as to
 5   the reasoning behind the interest rate change because
 6   we just can't have anybody going in there and changing
 7   things, now, can we?
 8        Q    And can you give a summary of the
 9   documentation that is required for at least somebody in
10   your department or job function to make an interest
11   rate change in the system?
12        A    Well, we would have to have any legal
13   documentation backing up the reason for the change,
14   managerial's approval of allowing us to make that
15   change.  And when I say, "legal backup," not just
16   anything from the court, but explanation in layman's
17   terms of what that court document is asking us to do.
18        Q    And what sort of a form would that
19   explanation take?  Is that something you generate or
20   something you receive from outside counsel?
21        A    Depends on the case.
22        Q    Okay.  It could be either?
23        A    (Nods head).
24        Q    So with a court order and your summary or a
25   manager's summary that says, the interest rate's being

                                                                    60
 1   changed because this is what this court order means,
 2   you can then make a change in that critical field?
 3        A    It is not a change that I personally could
 4   make.  That critical field maintenance is done by a
 5   very specific department.  And at times -- well, due to
 6   the -- to the extent of the effect on the loan due to
 7   the change in that information, it takes a while to
 8   process that information.
 9        Q    Is there specific recording that needs to be
10   made to a note owner of a critical field change?
11        A    I do not know.
12        Q    Who would know that?
13        A    I don't know.
14        Q    Is there, within Wells Fargo, a department or
15   a function that deals with communicating with holders
16   of loans that are serviced by Wells Fargo?
17        A    There is a department called -- and I'm
18   sorry.  I'm blanking for a second.  Hold on --
19   servicing acquisitions that deals with communications,
20   with note holders.  Whether their job would entail
21   this, I do not know.
22        Q    But, as far as you know, that's the only --
23   that's the only department that you're aware of that
24   does communicate directly with the note holders?
25        A    Well, no.  As I've stated before, my

                                                                    61
 1   department at times deals directly with the note
 2   holders, depending on the status of the case that we're
 3   dealing with.
 4        Q    And have you ever been -- have you ever dealt
 5   directly with a note holder regarding a change in a
 6   loan that resulted in modifying a critical field?
 7        A    Not personally, no.
 8        Q    Do you know anybody who has?
 9        A    Not off the top of my head.
10        Q    Next line -- well -- okay.  Underneath the
11   interest rate is "Interest Paid Year-To-Date."  Does
12   that reflect monies actually received from the borrower
13   that were credited towards interest on the loan?
14        A    I believe so.
15        Q    If interest is accruing but payments coming
16   in aren't credited to interest, then --
17        A    Then the interest hasn't been paid, so
18   there's -- there would be no figure there.
19        Q    Okay.  And the line below that, "Taxes Paid
20   Year-To-Date," are taxes paid by Wells Fargo on account
21   of this particular loan or collateral; is that a fair
22   understanding of that line?
23        A    Within that year, yes.
24        Q    Within that year.
25        A    So, as the statement date on this one is 3/15

                                                                    62
 1   of '06, from January of '06 to March of '06, there were
 2   no taxes disbursed or paid.
 3        Q    The next line, the escrow balance, is it fair
 4   to call that a running balance?
 5        A    Yes.
 6        Q    And what would that reflect on any particular
 7   monthly statement?
 8        A    Any disbursements made by Wells Fargo that
 9   are still pending on the loan, taxes, hazard,
10   et cetera.  They do not necessarily have to be running
11   within the same year; they could have been running over
12   the life of the loan.  And it also would include PMI
13   disbursements, anything else that would fall under the
14   normal escrow categories.
15        Q    And are all of those disbursements ordinarily
16   reflected on the monthly statement?
17        A    Do not know.  I know they are reflected on
18   the payment history.
19        Q    The next line down, "Activity Since Your Last
20   Statement."  Let's goes through that line from left to
21   right.  And if you can tell me what each individual
22   entry means.
23        A    "Date" would be the date that that
24   transaction occurred.  "Description," of course, would
25   be the type of transaction that occurred.  In this case

                                                                    63
 1   it states that it was a payment.  "Total" would be
 2   amount of funds in reference to this line.  And it
 3   states $320.  "Principal" would indicate how much of
 4   that item went towards principal, $24.13.  "Interest"
 5   would reflect how much interest was paid, 240.92.  And
 6   "Escrow" would reflect the amount of escrow paid,
 7   123.52.  "Late Charge" would be if there was a late
 8   charge paid or assessed on this loan at that time.  And
 9   there is no indication there, so I would say that
10   neither occurred.  "Other" could mean a lot of things,
11   and it reflects a negative 68.57.
12        Q    Let's talk about that "Other" line.  Are
13   there any guidelines, policies, procedures, or manuals
14   that you've ever seen that talk about what kind of
15   credits and charges should be reflected in the other
16   line of a monthly statement?
17        A    I don't know.
18        Q    When you say it could mean lots of things,
19   what things are you aware of that it could mean?
20        A    To my knowledge, it could be NSF charges,
21   escrow, if we had to take funds out of -- out of --
22   sorry, not escrow -- suspense, in order to make a
23   payment.  That is what comes to mind at this moment.
24        Q    Tell me everything that you've learned about
25   suspense and how you've learned it.

                                                                    64
 1        A    As --
 2        Q    It probably won't take us more than ten
 3   minutes.
 4        A    As I've stated, most of my knowledge comes
 5   from on-the-job training and mentoring by preexisting
 6   employees.  Suspense, as I've stated, is an account
 7   where, if funds are received that are not sufficient to
 8   make a payment but there is no cause to return them to
 9   the borrower, i.e., they're not, you know, in
10   foreclosure and it isn't sufficient to reinstate or
11   something like that, they are held hoping that -- that
12   the borrower will continue to make payments and
13   therefore create a sufficient payment amount to be
14   applied to the loan.
15        Q    On this particular statement the payment
16   received was $320; is that right?
17        A    That is what this statement appears to be
18   stating, yes.
19        Q    And neither of us has a calculator in front
20   of us, but the sum of the principal and the interest
21   and the escrow exceeds that $320; right?
22        A    Without a calculation, yes, I can -- I can
23   see that.
24        Q    And deducting the excess amount in that other
25   line would be a way to make the whole line balance;

                                                                    65
 1   right?
 2        A    Without a calculation, I would say correct.
 3        Q    And looking at this statement, you don't know
 4   whether that 68.57 was additional money that was put
 5   into the system coming out of a suspense account, or
 6   whether it was simply a mathematical means to have the
 7   total of the principal, interest, and escrow be
 8   balanced by payment coming in in the other?  Do you
 9   have any way of knowing --
10        A    Reading --
11        Q    -- or how that would have been done on this
12   monthly statement?
13        A    Reading this loan, no I do not.
14        Q    Okay.  And there is another document or
15   report that would give you more information about how
16   that transaction was handled?
17        A    The payment history.
18        Q    On the line below, I just want to -- can you
19   just read those three paragraphs and tell me either
20   what your understanding of them is or what you may have
21   been told about them?
22        A    It is stating, as I have stated before, that
23   the information contained herein is just for
24   informational purposes.  We're not necessarily trying
25   to collect a debt.  We're just trying to advise you

                                                                    66
 1   about what's going on with the loan, that we're not
 2   trying to -- to go against any bankruptcy contingencies
 3   that you may have, that literally we are just trying to
 4   inform you about what is happening on the loan.
 5        Q    And is it Wells Fargo's position that, even
 6   if a borrower in bankruptcy is not personally
 7   responsible for the amounts shown on one of these
 8   statements, that the property that is collateral for
 9   the loan is still responsible for that amount?
10        A    Yes.  I think I understood the question
11   right.
12        Q    Well, describe to me your understanding of
13   how bankruptcy ordinarily affects the liability of a
14   borrower on a Wells Fargo loan.
15        A    Depending on the type of bankruptcy.  Please
16   clarify.
17        Q    Well, describe your understanding of how a
18   Chapter 11 bankruptcy affects the liability of a
19   borrower.
20        A    From my understanding of Chapter 11
21   bankruptcies, the borrower is still liable for the debt
22   contained therein.  It is a form in which he can
23   reevaluate that debt over an extended period of time to
24   be determined via the Chapter 11 plan.
25        Q    In a Chapter 7 if a borrower has received a

                                                                    67
 1   discharge, is he still responsible to pay the amounts
 2   shown on these statements?
 3        A    Depends.
 4             Whether he's reaffirmed.
 5        Q    If he has not reaffirmed and he's received a
 6   discharge, is he personally responsible for the balance
 7   shown on the statement?
 8        A    Not personally.
 9        Q    And is the collateral for the loan
10   responsible to satisfy the balance shown on the
11   statement?
12        A    Yes.
13        Q    Is there any difference in a Chapter 11
14   without a reaffirmation that you'd be aware of?
15        A    I do not know.
16        Q    Is it Wells Fargo's policy after a Chapter 11
17   plan is confirmed to modify the liability of the
18   collateral for the obligations that are shown on its
19   system?
20        A    Could you readdress -- I'm not sure I
21   understood your question.
22        Q    We've discussed what affect a Chapter 7
23   discharge has on a loan that is not reaffirmed.  And
24   you've said that it means that there's a discharge of
25   the personal responsibility, but not of the

                                                                    68
 1   responsibility of the collateral for the loan amount;
 2   is that a fair summary?
 3        A    Yes.
 4        Q    In a Chapter 11 if a discharge is received,
 5   is there any difference in the way you look at the
 6   personal obligation and the obligation of the
 7   collateral?
 8        A    Under a discharge, not to my knowledge.
 9        Q    Is Wells Fargo taking the position in
10   Mr. Mortgagor's loans that the collateral securing this
11   particular Indigo Street loan is responsible for
12   anything other than the full balance that's reflected
13   on its books?
14        A    Please restate the question.
15        Q    Is Wells Fargo taking the position as of
16   March 15th, 2006, which is the statement date on the
17   first page of Exhibit No. 4, that the collateral
18   securing this particular loan number, 5950623, is
19   responsible for payment of the sum of the charges shown
20   on this statement?
21        A    We aren't taking any position.  This is for
22   informational purposes.
23        Q    Does Wells Fargo issue any documents which
24   do, in fact, state to a borrower who is in bankruptcy
25   how much money the collateral is responsible for on the

                                                                    69
 1   loan?
 2        A    Their deed and trust and note state how much
 3   the collateral is held for in regards to the loan.  I'm
 4   not sure I understand your question.
 5        Q    Well, we'll have lots of reports to look at,
 6   so we can figure it out before the end of the day.
 7             Can you turn to the next page of Exhibit
 8   No. 4, please.
 9        A    Back side of page 1, I'm assuming?
10        Q    Yes.  And it looks like this statement was
11   issued five days after the previous statement.  Do you
12   know why?
13        A    It appears that -- that something occurred on
14   this loan that -- that would have it generate a
15   statement.
16        Q    Is it your understanding of monthly mortgage
17   statements that they're not always monthly?
18        A    No.  They are -- tend to generate when
19   something happens on the loan, monthly or bimonthly or
20   ten times a month.
21        Q    Is there anything you can see on this
22   particular statement that happened on the loan that
23   would have caused a statement to be generated?
24        A    It appears that, per unpaid late charges
25   increase, that a -- that a late charge was applied to

                                                                    70
 1   the loan.
 2        Q    And in March of last year, would Mr. Mortgagor
 3   have been responsible to pay late charges if payments
 4   weren't made by a specified day?
 5        A    If it was in compliance with his deed and
 6   trust and note, then, yes.
 7        Q    Are there any events that you're aware of
 8   that would change or remove that responsibility to pay
 9   late charges?
10        A    As I have stated before, Chapter 13's, we do
11   not charge late charges, so if the borrower was under a
12   Chapter 13 during that time frame, he would not be
13   responsible for late charges because we wouldn't be
14   putting them on the account.  Besides that, unless
15   there was some court ruling or court documentation to
16   state otherwise, we would comply with the rules and
17   regulations as set forth in the deed of trust and note.
18        Q    Are there any documents besides the deed and
19   trust -- the deed of trust, the note, the mortgage --
20   if you're not in Maryland -- that would specify those
21   rules and regulations?
22        A    There may be other documentation contained
23   within the origination packet that lay out additional
24   information in regards to those figures.  There may
25   also be court documentations.  If it has been within

                                                                    71
 1   foreclosure or bankruptcy, that may or may not adjust
 2   those figures.
 3        Q    Is that governed by servicing agreements?
 4        A    No.
 5        Q    Is that governed by servicing regulations?
 6        A    No.
 7        Q    It's strictly a function of the deed and
 8   trust and note, then?
 9        A    Yes.
10        Q    Okay.  And, if you don't have a deed of
11   trust, you go to the mortgage; is that right?
12        A    Yes.
13        Q    Is this --
14        A    Sorry, habit.
15        Q    Is there a deed of trust on Indigo Street
16   that you're aware of?
17        A    No.  As far as I'm aware, there is a
18   mortgage.
19        Q    What's the difference?
20        A    None.  Title.  What they chose to call it at
21   that particular time, what state you're in when the
22   document was prepared.
23        Q    There's a lot of trustees in mortgage states
24   that would disagree with you because they're not
25   getting any fees in Florida.

                                                                    72
 1        A    Yeah.  Well, that's Florida law.
 2        Q    Okay.  So, as far as you know, the difference
 3   between the March 15th, the March 20th, statement, is
 4   the unpaid late charges have been increased; the
 5   interest rate on the loan is still maintained at 8 1/2
 6   percent; and the unpaid principal balance, it looks
 7   like it hasn't changed either; is that a fair summary
 8   of your testimony?
 9        A    That is what the documents you have provided
10   me appear to be stating.
11        Q    Okay.  Let's move on to page 3.  And if you
12   can describe any significant changes since the last
13   monthly mortgage statement on this account.
14        A    It appears that, not only did the late
15   charges increase, but the overdue payments increased.
16        Q    And what is an overdue payment; what does
17   that line reflect?
18        A    Payments that haven't been paid.
19        Q    Since the date that's shown on the system
20   that you described earlier?
21        A    The contractual date, yes.
22        Q    That's page 3, I guess.  Page 4 looks like a
23   poorly faxed page.  And we can skip that.  Are there
24   any significant changes that you see between the
25   statement on the fifth page and the last one on the

                                                                    73
 1   third page from May?
 2        A    It appears that the unpaid payment amount has
 3   decreased slightly and the late charge amount has
 4   increased.
 5        Q    Okay.  How about the next page, any changes
 6   going on to the May 31st statement?
 7        A    Overdue payments, again, have decreased.  Per
 8   the activity since the last statement, it appears that
 9   a payment had been made.  Unpaid late charges has not
10   differated [phonetic].
11        Q    We can skip straight, if you like, to the
12   eleventh page, which is a monthly mortgage statement
13   dated 11/1/06.
14        A    Okay.
15        Q    And can you describe how or why the unpaid
16   principal balance and the interest rate both seem to
17   have changed significantly from the prior monthly
18   statement?
19        A    It would appear that -- for one reason or
20   another, that a critical field maintenance was done in
21   regards to this loan.
22        Q    Do you know of such a critical field
23   maintenance being performed on this account?
24        A    I -- to my knowledge, there was a critical
25   field maintenance done on this loan in order to try to

                                                                    74
 1   comply with the Chapter 11 plan filed in the
 2   bankruptcy.
 3        Q    And have you reviewed the documentation
 4   supporting that critical field maintenance?
 5        A    I have not received that documentation yet.
 6   I have requested it but have not received it.
 7        Q    Who did you request it from?
 8        A    From the bankruptcy department that would
 9   have requested the critical field maintenance be done
10   due to the Chapter 11 plan.
11        Q    Is there an individual you're communicating
12   with in the bankruptcy department?
13        A    There are multiple individuals that I'm
14   communicating with.
15        Q    Okay.  Could you give me the name of anybody
16   that you know who might know of the details of this
17   particular critical field maintenance?
18        A    Teresa Diaz-Cochran.
19        Q    And, to your knowledge, what was her
20   involvement with the critical field maintenance?
21        A    I believe she is supervisor of the department
22   that handled it.
23        Q    Have you had any discussions with her between
24   the time you got on this file and today?
25        A    Yes.

                                                                    75
 1        Q    What did you say to her and what did she say
 2   to you?
 3        A    I asked her, you know, what procedures Wells
 4   Fargo had in regards to manuals for Chapter 11s.  I
 5   asked her about the handling of this loan, and
 6   specifically -- and in regards to our compliance with
 7   the Chapter 11 plan.
 8        Q    What was her answer to those questions?
 9        A    She was also unaware of any manuals that we
10   had in regards to the Chapter 11 processes.  She
11   reviewed her knowledge of this loan with me, and she
12   said that she would pull the critical field maintenance
13   reports that were done on this loan for me and said
14   that, you know, she has had multiple conversations with
15   our attorney in regards to trying to make sure that
16   this loan complies with the Chapter 11 plan.
17        Q    Did you have any discussions with her as to
18   the timing of the critical field maintenance, as to why
19   it would have appeared on a mortgage statement in
20   November of 2006?
21        A    No.
22        Q    Do you have, based on that discussion, your
23   review of the file, and any other discussions that you
24   might have had with anybody, an understanding as to
25   exactly what was modified in the loan with the critical

                                                                    76
 1   field maintenances reflected on the November 1
 2   statement?
 3        A    I -- since I have no knowledge of exactly the
 4   critical field maintenance in regards to the statement,
 5   I can only review what was actually written on the
 6   statement, which states that there was an interest rate
 7   change from 8.5 to 7 percent per the prior month, and
 8   that the principal balance went from a 33,864.98 to
 9   47,772.86 in the month in question.
10        Q    Are there any documents that you're aware of
11   that would reflect -- let's back up to that prior
12   statement.  The October 4 statement shows a line under
13   "Activity Since Your Last Statement."  Can you describe
14   what that line means in your understanding of Wells
15   Fargo statements?
16        A    It appears to be a monthly mortgage insurance
17   disbursement on behalf of this loan to -- it's listed
18   as a Triad Guarantee Insurance Corporation.
19        Q    What documentation would be in the file that
20   would reflect either the amount or the payee of that
21   payment?
22        A    The loan history would show the amounts.
23        Q    Is the amount of that payment or the payee of
24   that payment specified in the ordinary course in either
25   the note or the mortgage on a loan?

                                                                    77
 1        A    Well, I -- since I have not reviewed line for
 2   line the mortgage or note in regards to this property,
 3   I cannot properly assess that answer.
 4        Q    Are there any other documents in the file
 5   that would reflect payments to Triad Guarantee
 6   Insurance Corporation on any of Mr. Mortgagor's loans?
 7        A    Not contained within a file of my knowledge.
 8        Q    Is there a mortgage insurance policy?
 9        A    If there is, it has been provided to you.  I
10   have not reviewed every, single page of every, single
11   document that was sent to you, so, therefore, I do not
12   know.
13        Q    Is there a mortgage insurance policy
14   maintained on Wells Fargo's imaging system for each
15   loan for which mortgage insurance payments are taken
16   from the borrower?
17        A    Not always.
18        Q    And what would be the circumstances in which
19   there wouldn't be a policy?
20        A    If it has been misplaced by a prior servicer,
21   if it was accidentally not imaged when the imaging
22   stuff was going on the computer, there could be a lot
23   of reasons why it may or may not be there.
24        Q    And if it's not -- if it's not imaged, is
25   there a way for you to get the paper document?

                                                                    78
 1        A    It depends on if there is a paper document to
 2   retrieve.
 3        Q    Have you ever seen a monthly statement that
 4   reflected a mortgage insurance payment when there was
 5   not a policy to retrieve?
 6        A    I have not dealt with such a case.
 7        Q    Before today, in reviewing this particular
 8   statement, have you ever heard of Triad Guarantee
 9   Insurance Corporation before?
10        A    No.
11        Q    Are they a company under common ownership
12   with Wells Fargo?
13        A    Not to my knowledge.
14        Q    Are they owned by Wells Fargo?
15        A    Not to my knowledge.
16        Q    How is that amount, the amount of that
17   mortgage insurance payment, determined?
18        A    I don't know.
19        Q    Who would know?
20        A    I would assume that the mortgagor would know,
21   because I would hope that the documentation was
22   contained in the origination documents.
23        Q    Is there somebody at Wells Fargo that would
24   know how the amount of that mortgage insurance payment
25   is determined?

                                                                    79
 1        A    I don't know.
 2        Q    Do you know why, out of all the statements
 3   we're reviewing on the Indigo Street loan, this is the
 4   only mortgage insurance payment for $25.85 that's
 5   reflected?
 6        A    I do not know why.
 7        Q    You stated before that these statements are
 8   provided to indicate to the mortgagor what's going on
 9   with the loan?
10        A    Yes.
11        Q    Are you aware of any guidelines, policies, or
12   procedures, requiring these statements to accurately
13   reflect what's going on on the loan?
14        A    It is always our attempt to accurately
15   reflect what's going on in the loan.  Wells is not
16   impervious to error.
17        Q    I'm not accusing anybody of error here.  I'm
18   just asking if there's any requirement that you're
19   aware of in any of the materials that you've reviewed
20   that these monthly mortgage statements be accurate?
21        A    As I say, we always strive for them to be
22   accurate, but that doesn't mean they are.  It is a
23   general Wells Fargo policy above and beyond just
24   mortgage statements that everything that we provide
25   attempt to be accurate.

                                                                    80
 1        Q    And are there any manuals or memoranda or
 2   guidelines that you've seen that set forth that policy?
 3        A    It was verbally told to me.
 4        Q    Who told you that?
 5        A    My supervisory team.
 6        Q    What are their names?
 7        A    You've already been provided their names.
 8        Q    And when did they tell you that?
 9        A    When I started at Wells.
10        Q    Was this part of a casual discussion, or was
11   it part of a formal training?
12        A    I have no idea.
13        Q    But you've never seen any documents that say
14   what degree of accuracy is expected out of monthly
15   mortgage statements?
16        A    No, I have not.
17        Q    When errors take place that are reflected on
18   monthly mortgage statements, does Wells Fargo have
19   policies or procedures in place to identify and rectify
20   those errors?
21        A    I don't know.
22        Q    Who would know?
23        A    I don't know.
24        Q    Would anybody on your supervisory team know?
25        A    I don't know.

                                                                    81
 1        Q    Is this the first error you've ever seen on a
 2   monthly mortgage statement?
 3             MR. DI SPIGNA:  Excuse me.  What error are we
 4        referring to?
 5             THE WITNESS:  We do not know the -- thank
 6        you.
 7             MR. DI SPIGNA:  What error are we referring
 8        to?
 9   BY MR. FINNER:
10        Q    Have you ever seen an error on a monthly
11   mortgage statement?
12        A    Yes.
13        Q    Well, can you describe that error, please.
14        A    It was a miscalculation on the monthly
15   mortgage statement due to an error in our system in
16   communicating the numbers from us to our vendor.  It
17   was brought to our attention by the borrower and
18   immediately corrected.
19        Q    How did the borrower communicate this to
20   Wells Fargo?
21        A    He called.
22        Q    Who did he speak with?
23        A    Customer service.
24        Q    What did customer service do?
25             The reason I'm asking those questions is

                                                                    82
 1   you've said that you don't know what policies and
 2   procedures are in place for rectifying errors, and so I
 3   just want to find if there's any residual knowledge
 4   that you might not have been aware of when you made
 5   that answer.
 6        A    I understand.  I do not know how customer
 7   service went about correcting the error.  All I know
 8   is, in reading the notes of that case that I was
 9   involved in at a later date, it identified that the
10   borrower had called about something that he was
11   concerned about on the statement that was obviously,
12   you know, not meant to be on the statement of that
13   loan, that they contacted the vendor at the time,
14   which, as I've stated, is no longer our vendor, and,
15   since that point, the customer had called and verified
16   that the problem had been fixed.  The policy or
17   procedure thereof, I am not aware of.
18        Q    Okay.  Is customer service a distinct group
19   or department within Wells Fargo, or does that refer,
20   rather, to a job function as you see it when you read
21   reports?
22        A    I believe the answer is both.
23        Q    Do the employees within the customer service
24   group or that have customer service job functions have
25   the authority or ability to make modifications to any

                                                                    83
 1   of the items that you see on a monthly mortgage
 2   statement?
 3        A    I would say it would depend on what
 4   modifications need to be done.  If it is a critical
 5   field maintenance, they would have to go through the
 6   procedure that I have already gone over; in other
 7   words, changing an interest rate.  If it is a printing
 8   error, then, as I say, they would contact the print
 9   vendor to get that issue resolved.  If it is something
10   that is beyond their realm, I am sure that they would
11   escalate or transfer to a department that would be able
12   to help.
13        Q    And what departments are able to make changes
14   to the amount that's due on a loan that's serviced by
15   Wells Fargo?
16        A    Many departments do, depending on whether --
17   what status the loan is in, bankruptcy, foreclosure,
18   litigation, et cetera.
19        Q    If it's in bankruptcy, can that be done
20   outside of the bankruptcy department?
21        A    It should not be done outside of the
22   bankruptcy department.
23        Q    If it's in bankruptcy and in litigation, can
24   that still be done within the bankruptcy department?
25        A    It can still be done in the bankruptcy

                                                                    84
 1   department, but should be notified to the litigation
 2   department, as the litigation tends to be more pressing
 3   of an issue.
 4        Q    Does Wells Fargo have policies and procedures
 5   in place for recovering payments made improperly
 6   against a loan that's serviced by Wells Fargo to
 7   third-party vendors?
 8        A    Yeah -- I'm sorry.  Repeat that.
 9        Q    If Wells Fargo --
10        A    I want to make sure I heard you correctly.
11        Q    If Wells Fargo sends $25 to Triad Guarantee
12   Insurance Corporation that is not an expenditure that
13   is authorized under the note, mortgage, and applicable
14   law, does Wells Fargo have procedures in place to get
15   that money back from the vendor and give it back to the
16   borrower?
17        A    I am sure that there is a way in order to do
18   that.  As to a specific procedure, I do not know.
19        Q    If I already asked you this, then I
20   apologize, but looking at the tenth page of Exhibit
21   No. 4, do you know why Mr. Mortgagor was charged $25.85
22   for Triad Guarantee Insurance Corporation?
23        A    The mortgage statement would indicate that
24   that was a mortgage insurance payment.  Whether that is
25   allowed on the loan or note depends on the mortgage or

                                                                    85
 1   the note.
 2        Q    And you haven't seen any other documents that
 3   would reflect or verify a $25.85 mortgage insurance
 4   payment to Triad Guarantee Insurance Corporation; is
 5   that a fair summary of your testimony?
 6        A    I have said and I will say again:  I have not
 7   read, line for line, the mortgage or the note, and
 8   therefore I do not know whether the mortgage insurance
 9   is an acceptable charge or not.
10        Q    Could you read the question back, please?
11             (The previous question was read by the court
12   reporter.)
13             THE WITNESS:  No.
14   BY MR. FINNER:
15        Q    What other documents have you seen that would
16   reflect or verify a $25.85 payment to Triad --
17        A    I --
18        Q    We've all read a lot of documents.  The stuff
19   that we don't know, we don't know, but --
20        A    And that's what --
21        Q    -- if you've seen something --
22        A    That's all I am trying to say.  If I have
23   read it, I do not recall at this time.
24             MR. FINNER:  Let's take a break.
25             (A recess was taken.)

                                                                    86
 1             MR. FINNER:  I'm going to mark a document as
 2        Exhibit No. 5.
 3             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 5 was marked for
 4   identification.)
 5   BY MR. FINNER:
 6        Q    I'd like you to look it over and tell us what
 7   it is.
 8        A    Notification in regards to PMI on a loan
 9   stating that they have the ability by law to cancel the
10   PMI or there could be automatic termination of the PMI,
11   given certain circumstances, and to please contact
12   Wells Fargo to address those possible cancellations or
13   terminations.
14        Q    And are these the -- are these notifications
15   that are sent on Mr. Mortgagor's loan secured by the
16   Indigo Street property?
17        A    It does indicate that this notice was sent to
18   Mr. Mortgagor, and the loan number at the bottom of the
19   letter indicates that it would be in regards to the
20   Indigo Street property.
21        Q    Do you know how these documents are
22   generated?
23        A    They appear to be computer generated out of
24   our system.
25        Q    Do you know whether they're automatically

                                                                    87
 1   generated or generated as the result of some operator
 2   input?
 3        A    I do not know.
 4        Q    Do you know the steps that are involved in
 5   preparing these documents?
 6        A    No.
 7        Q    Have you ever seen a manual or guideline or
 8   been exposed to any training that discusses how these
 9   particular letters are generated or sent?
10        A    Not this particular letter, no.
11        Q    Are you aware of any reports of the -- are
12   you aware of any reports that are sent to note owners
13   regarding private mortgage insurance on a particular
14   loan?
15        A    Not to my knowledge.
16        Q    And could you just tell us in a narrative
17   form everything that you do know about private mortgage
18   insurance as it relates to Mr. Mortgagor's loan secured by
19   the Indigo Street property?
20        A    To my knowledge, it appears that the loan has
21   had, probably, mortgage insurance on it for quite some
22   time.  The payment history reflects that it has been
23   disbursed regularly.  And, per this letter, it appears
24   that there may have been some reason for the company
25   belief that it had the ability to be or possibly had

                                                                    88
 1   the ability to be canceled or terminated.
 2        Q    Does Wells Fargo have any policies that you
 3   are aware of with regard to the cancellation or
 4   termination of private mortgage insurance in loans that
 5   are affected by Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceedings?
 6        A    Not to my knowledge.
 7             MR. FINNER:  I'm marking a document as
 8        Exhibit No. 6.
 9             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 6 was marked for
10   identification.)
11   BY MR. FINNER:
12        Q    And I'd like you to look it over and tell us
13   what it is, please.
14        A    It is a Customer Account Activity Statement.
15   It is a computer-generated statement from the payment
16   history contained within the system to show credits and
17   disbursements on the loan.
18        Q    Were you involved with the creation of this
19   statement in any way?
20        A    I believe this particular statement I
21   generated for response to the request for documents for
22   this depo.
23             THE COURT REPORTER:  For this . . .?
24             THE WITNESS:  For the response to this --
25        request for production of documents for this

                                                                    89
 1        depo.
 2   BY MR. FINNER:
 3        Q    And is that what the -- I guess it's the
 4   third computer-generated line, or the second, depending
 5   on if you count the fax header, where it says, "REQ BY
 6   VBZ."  Does that indicate that you initiated this
 7   document, or does it indicate that somebody else
 8   requested it?
 9        A    That would be me.  "REQ" meaning requested,
10   "BY VBZ" is my Fidelity code indicating that I am the
11   processor that generated this statement.
12        Q    Two lines down below that it says, "Activity
13   For Period 01/01/05 - 06/28/07."  Do you know how those
14   dates were determined?
15        A    Our computer system maintains only a certain
16   amount of the loan history, depending on the amount of
17   activity on that loan.  I went through the system,
18   determined what the oldest date in the system was that
19   we had access to, and asked the system to create this
20   report from that date to, at that time, the current
21   date.
22        Q    Does it make sense to read this report
23   backwards, from the end coming towards the front?
24        A    Yes, you would want to read it from the last
25   page to page 1.

                                                                    90
 1        Q    Let's turn to that last page, then, please.
 2   And start with the bottom line and describe what that
 3   line indicates, please.
 4        A    The very bottom of the page, it shows an
 5   amount of $15 and then three sets of zeros.  The line
 6   above that is a date, 1-4 of '05, a due date of '00, a
 7   transaction code of 631, and then an indication of what
 8   that code represents; in this case, it was for property
 9   preservation.
10        Q    And when it's a positive number of $15, does
11   that reflect that $15 as being added to the balance of
12   the loan?
13        A    Depending on the type of transaction --
14   depends on how it is read.
15        Q    How can you tell the difference looking at
16   one of these reports?
17        A    In this case, $15 is assessing.  If it is a
18   disbursement, it would automatically be a negative from
19   the account, taking away from the account.  So on this
20   line it's saying we applied a fee of $15 for property
21   preservation.
22        Q    And that's a fee that the servicer is
23   charging the borrower; is that correct?
24        A    In most cases, yes.
25        Q    And are there -- what kinds of cases would

                                                                    91
 1   you not be charging the borrower this particular $15
 2   fee for property preservation?
 3        A    There are cases where the -- if the property
 4   is predefault and we do a property inspection, it would
 5   not show up on the account history because it is
 6   charged back to either Wells Fargo themselves or to an
 7   investor.
 8        Q    Can you tell looking at this statement
 9   whether it's Wells Fargo's intent to charge Mr. Mortgagor
10   $15?
11        A    It appears that this $15 is hitting against
12   this account, yes.
13        Q    Does "property preservation" always mean an
14   inspection of the property?
15        A    Inspection -- not always inspection, per se.
16        Q    You've never seen a case where somebody goes
17   out and applies wood preservative to the property, have
18   you?
19        A    No.  But I've seen where property
20   preservation has been photos to verify the property's
21   condition, or maintenance in regards to lawn care,
22   general upkeep.
23        Q    Are the amounts of those charges established
24   in the mortgage and the note?
25        A    I do not know.

                                                                    92
 1        Q    Do you know of any other operative document
 2   that would establish the amount of those charges?
 3        A    Not to my knowledge.
 4        Q    Does this particular report show -- well,
 5   let's move up to the next line because that's a
 6   disbursement and I think you said that's treated
 7   differently.  Is that funds that are actually sent out
 8   of Wells Fargo to somebody else?
 9        A    Yes.
10        Q    As opposed to on the property preservation,
11   that fee is assessed to the borrower without
12   necessarily a check being written to a third party?
13        A    Well, it would be an invoice that we had
14   received in regards to the loan.  Whether we pay it at
15   that particular time or at a later date depends on many
16   factors.
17        Q    And if you made a payment, it would be
18   reflected on this particular report?
19        A    It would be reflected as payment of a
20   corporate advance, as property preservation is
21   considered a corporate advance.
22             MR. DI SPIGNA:  You said "made a payment"; is
23        it "made a payment" by taking funds from the
24        debtor and applying them to the corporate advance
25        account versus made a payment by Wells Fargo,

                                                                    93
 1        writing a check to a third-party vendor for the
 2        services that were provided?
 3             MR. FINNER:  I think I understand the
 4        distinction.
 5   BY MR. FINNER:
 6        Q    Underneath the "Mortgage Insurance
 7   Disbursement" line, there's an amount given as new
 8   principal, escrow balances; what is that intended to
 9   reflect?
10        A    Anytime a transaction affects the principal
11   or the escrow accounts on the loan, that line reflects
12   what the new amounts would be once that transaction had
13   occurred.  In this specific line it's saying that, once
14   we disburse 25.85 for mortgage insurance, the principal
15   -- or, sorry -- the escrow balance at that time was
16   increased to $3,564.35.
17        Q    Now, some of the charges on this 16th page of
18   Exhibit No. 6 for property preservation are for $15,
19   but one of them is for $35.  Is there any way of
20   telling the difference?
21        A    Not from this document, no.
22        Q    And there are two property preservation
23   charges assessed within the month of January of 2005.
24   Is there any way to determine why that was done?
25        A    Not from this document, no.

                                                                    94
 1        Q    Are there other documents that would allow
 2   you to determine that?
 3        A    It is possible that there are other
 4   documents.
 5        Q    Let's flip forward to the 15th page.  And on
 6   May 16 -- there's a line about a third of the way up
 7   the page that starts out 5-16-05; do you see that line?
 8        A    Yes, sir.
 9        Q    Can you go across that line, entry by entry,
10   and tell me what each of those entries refers to?
11        A    Okay.  5-16 of '05 would be the process date
12   of that transaction.  The "01-03" would indicate the
13   due date that is referenced on the loan at that time.
14   "152" represents a transaction code.  That code is then
15   referenced as a late charge assessment.  The line just
16   below that shows "000" in respective columns.  And then
17   13.25 as a late fee being assessed.
18        Q    Is there any sort of a document that you're
19   aware of that sets forth all these transaction codes
20   and says what they are?
21        A    I believe there may be an internal document
22   somewhere of -- I do not know of it off the top of my
23   head.
24        Q    Is that something that the software vendor
25   would be responsible for providing?

                                                                    95
 1        A    I don't know.
 2        Q    If you're looking at a report, are these
 3   transaction codes always accompanied by a written
 4   narrative that tells you what they mean?
 5        A    Not always.
 6        Q    And do you have a resource to go to to
 7   determine what the codes mean?
 8        A    In most cases, due to training, of sitting
 9   with people and learning them, I know most of the
10   transaction codes.
11        Q    So there's no code dictionary out there that
12   you use?
13        A    Not that I use personally, no.
14        Q    You just ask somebody if you don't know it?
15        A    Yeah.  If I don't know, I go -- go up the
16   chain.
17        Q    Okay.  This is the first late charge
18   assessment that I see going chronologically from the
19   back of the document forward.  Do you know why late
20   charges began to be assessed in May of 2005?
21        A    I do not.
22        Q    In your review of the loan, was there any
23   kind of an event or change that lead to the assessment
24   of late charges in May of 2005?
25        A    Except for the loan being delinquent at that

                                                                    96
 1   time, I do not -- I am not aware of any other change
 2   that would have effectuated the late charge.
 3        Q    And going a couple lines down there, there is
 4   a payment reflected.
 5        A    Uh-huh.
 6        Q    Do you know where that would have come from?
 7        A    Are you referring to the 4-27 of '05 --
 8        Q    Yes.
 9        A    -- payment?
10             It is showing that $170.29 was taken out of
11   escrow to pay recoverables at that time.
12        Q    What are recoverables?
13        A    I'm sorry.  Did I say "escrow" or "suspense"?
14        Q    You said "escrow."
15        A    I'm sorry.  That is incorrect.  It is
16   suspense that it was taken out of to -- to apply to
17   recoverables.  Mortgage recoverables could be property
18   inspections, attorneys' fees, anything that -- that we
19   have had to disburse on the account at that time above
20   and beyond escrow.
21        Q    And is that reflected on the next line down
22   with the Code 745?
23        A    Yes.
24        Q    And is there any way of determining exactly
25   what that advance was for?

                                                                    97
 1        A    No.  Recoverables are held as a running
 2   balance.  And, as that running balance is paid, it's
 3   not paid directly to any one given transaction but to
 4   the whole amount due.
 5        Q    Is there any -- when a Code 745 transaction
 6   is placed onto the system, is there any documentation
 7   that accompanies that entry?
 8        A    Please clarify "documentation."
 9        Q    I'm looking at this 4-27-05 entry under Code
10   745.  It says "CORP. ADVANCE ADJUSTMENT."  Is that
11   something that would have automatically posted to the
12   system, or would it have been input by a user?
13        A    The payment thereof would have been input by
14   a user.  The total transaction -- and can I take a
15   second to help explain?
16        Q    Please do.
17        A    Because corporate advance is held as a
18   separate entity from the actual loan processing, not
19   physically within the system, but as almost like a
20   sidebar, we have to use the 745 transaction to balance
21   the corporate side of it to the mortgage side of it.
22   In this case, where we took the 170 out of the suspense
23   account, which is on the big side of it, and put it
24   into the sidebar side of it into the corporate, that --
25   that 745 is that sidebar transaction balancing that

                                                                    98
 1   side of the equation.
 2        Q    Okay.  And what you describe as a running
 3   balance on a corporate -- did you say it's a corporate
 4   account or a corporate advance account?
 5        A    We call it a corporate advance.
 6        Q    Okay.  And that running balance on the
 7   corporate advance account, is that maintained with
 8   reference to each particular loan, or is that a more
 9   general accounting procedure that isn't necessarily
10   loan-specific?
11        A    To my knowledge, it is -- as long as the
12   charges are indicated when they are placed as
13   loan-specific charges, they are maintained as a
14   loan-specific entity.
15        Q    So if you wanted to know what Mr. Mortgagor was
16   being charged $170.92 for here, is there another report
17   you could generate that would tell you that?
18        A    No.  I would have to go back through his
19   history and -- and refer to each time a transaction
20   would have hit the corporate advance bucket, so to say,
21   and that would be my total that this money would have
22   hit against.
23        Q    Okay.  And when you say, "his history," is
24   that another report that we may be --
25        A    Well, his history is from the origination of

                                                                    99
 1   the loan to current.  This specific report only shows
 2   from 1 of '05 to current, and not from when the loan
 3   originated to current.
 4        Q    Okay.  At the second entry on the top of this
 5   page from July 18, 2005, does that reflect an actual
 6   payment by Wells Fargo to a third-party homeowner's
 7   insurance or a hazard insurance provider?
 8        A    Yes.
 9        Q    Is there a distinction in these transaction
10   codes between types of events, say, between ones that
11   are in a 100 series, as opposed to a 600 series, or am
12   I reading too much into it?
13        A    Yes.  No, you're not reading too much into
14   it; yes, there is a distinction of the initial number.
15   And what it refers to exactly, how that distinction is,
16   complies, what those brackets are, I do not know.
17        Q    Can you tell us generally what transaction
18   codes that begin with a one indicate?
19        A    Usually it is payments, late charges, 160
20   trans, 161, 168, those are us internally adjusting the
21   accounts.  If an escrow has gone negative, we have to
22   adjust the account to reflect a double negative.  So
23   those 161 trans and 168 trans are an internal
24   adjustment to make sure that the loan is reflecting the
25   proper information.  600s are fees, attorneys' fees,

                                                                   100
 1   property preservation fees, things of that nature.
 2   Does that assist in any way?
 3        Q    Yeah.  Is a code that you describe as a 160
 4   or a 160 series, is that something that is always going
 5   to be manually applied to the account?
 6        A    Not manually applied to the account.  They're
 7   just internal adjustments to make sure -- the way the
 8   accounting runs, it runs correctly --
 9        Q    Are they -- I'm sorry.
10        A    Whenever you see a 161 tran or a 168 tran,
11   just prior to that you will see another transaction.
12   For example, if you look at 7-13 of '05, you've got a
13   161, which is an escrow advance.  Just prior to that,
14   on 7-12, we're disbursing mortgage insurance.  We
15   disbursed 25.85.  The escrow account is already at a
16   negative number.  Because we're disbursing, it's also a
17   negative number.  In order to get two negatives to add
18   correctly within the system as an additional negative
19   and not a payment of that negative, we use the 161 tran
20   to correct double negatives.
21        Q    And does that all take place when somebody,
22   perhaps, in -- is there an accounts payable or a
23   separate department that is going to be issuing
24   payments for mortgage insurance?
25        A    Yes.

                                                                   101
 1        Q    And when somebody in that department issues
 2   that payment, are both those entries put into the
 3   system at the same time on that event?
 4        A    Within a cycle of each other.  Our computer
 5   systems run on a nightly cycle.  Information put in
 6   today is not going to show up until tomorrow.  Hence,
 7   why, if you look at the date that this transaction
 8   report was generated, across the top it says 6/29, yet
 9   the effective date is only 6/28; it has that one-day
10   holding period.
11        Q    Uh-huh.
12        A    The -- we have to negative it to make it
13   positive, so usually there is a one-day gap between
14   when the initial double negative hits and when the
15   escrow is corrected.
16        Q    And is that escrow correction applied by the
17   system itself, or does somebody get information that,
18   say, a payment was sent out and it's out of balance and
19   another entry has to be made to balance it?
20        A    I do not know.
21             MR. DI SPIGNA:  I can't imagine that's not
22        automatic.
23             THE WITNESS:  I would assume it's automatic,
24        but I don't like to assume anything because we
25        know what assuming does -- might not want to say

                                                                   102
 1        it on record.
 2             MR. FINNER:  Well, yeah, I don't share your
 3        confidence, Mr. Di Spigna, but let's move on.
 4   BY MR. FINNER:
 5        Q    On the page that's called page 13 of this
 6   document -- there.  It's --
 7        A    Yeah.
 8        Q    Okay.  The top line is 02-07-06?
 9        A    Uh-huh.
10        Q    And five lines down there's a 1-25-06 entry;
11   Code 632, "STATUTORY EXPENSES," is there any way of
12   knowing what that was for?
13        A    Not by reviewing this documentation.
14        Q    Is there another document that will tell us
15   what that is for?
16        A    It is possible that it is noted in the notes
17   or contained within an e-mail or within an attorney
18   invoice.
19        Q    And the line above that, Code 633, do you
20   know what that code refers to?
21        A    An expense that hit either within the
22   foreclosure or bankruptcy department, but above and
23   beyond that, not specifically.
24        Q    Do you have a separate code to reflect legal
25   fees?

                                                                   103
 1        A    In regards to an attorney fee, yes.
 2        Q    In the next page coming forward, four lines
 3   down, there's a Code 168 --
 4        A    Uh-huh.
 5        Q    -- which I think you discussed, indicated as
 6   a repay from escrow advance.  How is it determined when
 7   a payment comes in how much of that goes to pay the
 8   escrow advance?
 9        A    It -- the loan payment is usually applied per
10   note and deed of trust as principal, then interest,
11   then escrow.  The exact amount of the escrow is
12   analyzed over the course of the loans and notified to
13   the borrower because it could effectuate a payment
14   increase.  That amount is set for the time frame of
15   that analysis.
16        Q    Further down on the page there's an entry
17   dated -- or an entry headed 03-15-06, indicated as a
18   Code 173 payment.  Can you determine if there were any
19   payments made on this loan before that date and after
20   the January 1, '05, start date of this report?
21        A    Clarification:  When you say, "payments
22   made," do you mean funds in from the borrower, or funds
23   that were already in the loan that we are reapplying to
24   other parts of the loan?
25        Q    Let me strike that question and ask you a

                                                                   104
 1   different one.  Does this report indicate that no
 2   payments were received from Mr. Mortgagor between December
 3   20th, 2005, and March 15 of 2006?
 4        A    No.  There is one other -- at least one other
 5   indication of receipt of funds.
 6        Q    Between those two dates?
 7        A    Uh-huh.
 8        Q    Okay.  And where --
 9             MR. DI SPIGNA:  December 20th -- okay.
10             MR. FINNER:  Yeah.  I'm looking at 12-20-05
11        on page 13 and 3-15-06 on page 12.
12             THE WITNESS:  Okay.  On 12-20 of '05 is the
13        additional funds that I was referring to as being
14        received.  It shows the funds were received in the
15        amount of 320 and placed into the suspense
16        account.
17   BY MR. FINNER:
18        Q    And why were they placed into the suspense
19   account?
20        A    I -- in a normal course, funds would be
21   placed into the suspense account, as I have stated,
22   because they weren't sufficient to make a full monthly
23   payment at that time.
24        Q    And is there -- do you know the rules for
25   making that determination or input into the system?

                                                                   105
 1        A    No, I do not.
 2        Q    Do you know who would?
 3        A    I really don't.
 4        Q    Moving forward to page 10, there is a series
 5   of transactions that are noted with the header of
 6   09-15-06 with a Code 147.  Can you describe what those
 7   entries indicate?
 8        A    It appears that payments were reversed back
 9   into the suspense account for one reason or another.
10        Q    Does this report indicate -- does it identify
11   any kind of an operator that would have made those
12   entries?
13        A    No.
14        Q    Is there another report that does?
15        A    Our system notes might indicate who requested
16   that transaction.
17        Q    And what are system notes?
18        A    A running log of transactions on the account,
19   customer correspondence on the account.  Anytime we
20   talk to somebody, it's noted.
21        Q    This is where the people come in; right?
22        A    Yes.
23        Q    Almost done with this exhibit.  On page 8, in
24   the middle of the page there's an entry for 10-20-06,
25   Code 143, "ADJUSTMENT" -- gives a new due date and an

                                                                   106
 1   old due date.  How would this entry have arrived on the
 2   system?
 3        A    This would be part of a critical field
 4   maintenance request, adjusting the loan for a loan
 5   modification or any of the other reasons for one of
 6   those that I have indicated.  Obviously, we are
 7   adjusting the principal balance of the loan and what is
 8   reflected as the contractual due dates on the loan.
 9        Q    And is that the same critical field
10   maintenance that we discussed looking at the statements
11   that took place in late 2006?
12        A    Yes.
13        Q    And you're waiting for documents until you
14   can know what really happened there; is that right?
15        A    Yes.  And, trust me, I tried to get them
16   sooner.
17        Q    Okay.  Again, on page 6 there are -- one,
18   two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight -- eight
19   payment reversal transactions, and this report
20   doesn't -- am I correct in understanding your previous
21   answer to say that this report does not tell you why
22   payments were reversed, who asked for them to be
23   reversed, or what the circumstances were?
24        A    This report does not.
25        Q    And the system notes may?

                                                                   107
 1        A    May.
 2             MR. FINNER:  I'm going to mark a document as
 3        Exhibit No. 7.
 4             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 7 was marked for
 5   identification.)
 6   BY MR. FINNER:
 7        Q    Can I take a look at this for a minute?
 8        A    Oh, sure.  No problem.
 9        Q    I think this is one I don't have a copy of.
10             Can you tell us what that document is?
11        A    It is the additional history that I have made
12   reference to earlier.  This indicates that we boarded
13   the loan approximately April 24th of 2001, and it
14   shows, you know, running balances and transactions to
15   and from the account, depending on which page you're
16   looking at, clear through December 31st of '04.
17        Q    And what is then done?
18        A    Because then it transfers over to this.
19        Q    Okay.
20        A    The two can work together.
21        Q    And there's no code manual that you're aware
22   of to decipher the numeric codes on this document,
23   either?
24        A    Not that I'm aware of, but the codes are the
25   same transaction codes that are used in the other

                                                                   108
 1   document that we referenced.
 2        Q    If you can find in that document -- is there
 3   a page that shows events that took place on the loan in
 4   the month of February 2004?
 5        A    Okay.
 6        Q    Can you just describe generally what's
 7   supposed to happen to a Wells Fargo loan when the
 8   borrower files bankruptcy?
 9        A    The system is noted that the bankruptcy has
10   been filed, and until further determination, in most
11   cases the loan will run normally.  It depends on the
12   chapter that was filed and the circumstances of the
13   case.
14        Q    Is there any kind of an automated event that
15   would be put into the system upon the filing of a
16   bankruptcy that would suspend the accrual of late
17   charges?
18        A    Not an automated event, no.  It is
19   decipherable on the chapter that is indicated within
20   the bankruptcy.  If it is indicated that it was a
21   Chapter 13 bankruptcy, then within that indication
22   comes the automated event that the late charges would
23   stop.  In looking at the time frame that you
24   referenced, there is a code, the 332, which is an
25   assessment of a late charge.  Behind it, it has a B11,

                                                                   109
 1   which indicates that that late charge was applied
 2   during a bankruptcy, which indicates that it -- the
 3   system was aware of a bankruptcy, but it wasn't a
 4   bankruptcy that would have affected late charges.
 5        Q    And a bankruptcy -- is it your understanding
 6   that an entry of a Chapter 13 into a system will
 7   suspend the accrual of late charges?
 8        A    It is my understanding.
 9        Q    And is it your understanding that an entry of
10   a Chapter 7 or a Chapter 11 will not?
11        A    To my knowledge.
12             MR. FINNER:  I'll mark a document as Exhibit
13        No. 8.
14             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 8 was marked for
15   identification.)
16   BY MR. FINNER:
17        Q    And can you describe what this document
18   reflects?
19        A    This is the system notes that I was
20   reflecting.  It's a general log kept of customer
21   service activity on any given account for any given
22   time frame.
23        Q    And how does this document reflect that this
24   loan was treated when Mr. Mortgagor filed bankruptcy?
25        A    Could you give me a specific --

                                                                   110
 1             MR. DI SPIGNA:  February 13th, '04.
 2             THE WITNESS:  Okay.  Thank you, sir.
 3             Effective February 13th of '04, we were not
 4        necessarily aware of the bankruptcy.  It is noted
 5        on February 19th of '04 that a Chapter 11
 6        bankruptcy was filed by Max R. Mortgagor on the
 7        13th of '04, Case No. 040XXXX, in Jacksonville
 8        Florida, no accidental or health insurance listed
 9        on the loan, no life insurance listed on the loan.
10        And it indicates the Social Security number of the
11        Max R. Mortgagor that filed the bankruptcy to
12        verify that it is the same borrower as on this
13        loan.
14   BY MR. FINNER:
15        Q    And does that entry reflect who made it, or
16   does it give you an operator number that you would be
17   able to determine who made the entry?
18        A    It gives me a Fidelity code, 3C1, which does
19   indicate somebody within Wells Fargo, who I have no
20   knowledge.
21        Q    Does Exhibit No. 8 tell you whether Wells
22   Fargo notified a mortgage insurance company that
23   Mr. Mortgagor had filed bankruptcy?
24        A    During the specific time frame in question
25   and a general scan between February of '04 through

                                                                   111
 1   approximately September of '04, there is no indication
 2   that there was notification to -- no, I take that back.
 3   I'm sorry.  Reported to MI Company, 3/16 of 04, MI
 4   being Mortgage Insurance.
 5             THE COURT REPORTER:  I'm sorry?
 6             THE WITNESS:  MI being mortgage insurance.
 7             THE COURT REPORTER:  Okay.
 8   BY MR. FINNER:
 9        Q    And did Wells Fargo retain a copy of that
10   report?
11        A    Not to my knowledge.
12        Q    In the ordinary course, what sort of a report
13   is made to a mortgage insurance company upon the filing
14   of the borrower of bankruptcy?
15        A    I do not know.
16        Q    Is a claim made against the policy?
17        A    I do not know.
18        Q    Would you be able to tell from these notes
19   whether a claim was made against the mortgage insurance
20   policy?
21        A    If one was, it does not appear to be
22   indicated within that specific time frame that a claim
23   was made -- like I said, between approximately 9 of '04
24   and the filing of a bankruptcy in 2 of '04.
25        Q    Does Exhibit No. 8 -- does Exhibit No. 8

                                                                   112
 1   reflect any modifications that were made to the loan in
 2   November or December of 2005?
 3             (The witness consults in an undertone with
 4   Mr. Di Spigna.)
 5             THE WITNESS:  You said November and December
 6        of '05?
 7   BY MR. FINNER:
 8        Q    Yes.
 9        A    It appears that there was some discussion in
10   regards to modifying the loan in some way, shape, or
11   form, approximately 10/18 of '05.
12        Q    Can you determine from the notes who was
13   involved in that discussion?
14        A    Borrower Counseling Services.  And the rep
15   that put into the note -- Borrower Counseling Services
16   is also our collections department.  They have our
17   customer service.  They -- separate departments.  They
18   all interwork.
19        Q    Okay.  Does the person who put in the note
20   have a Fidelity code?
21        A    8CL.
22        Q    And who at Wells Fargo would be able to
23   identify particular individuals by their Fidelity code?
24        A    I have a system where we're given specific
25   codes I can type in and find out the processor, but

                                                                   113
 1   without given this specific processor code, it would be
 2   near to impossible for me to run through a loan and
 3   determine every processor there are.
 4        Q    So there isn't a directory, but you do have a
 5   function where you can put in a processor code and find
 6   out who that is?
 7        A    Uh-huh.
 8        Q    And were there any reports -- well, first,
 9   does the October '05 note that you're describing
10   discuss whether the loan owner was contacted with
11   respect to a modification of the bankruptcy court?
12        A    It does not indicate one way or the other.
13        Q    Does it talk about discussions with an
14   investor?
15        A    No.
16        Q    And does this report that's Exhibit No. 8
17   show what the ultimate outcome of that discussion was?
18        A    At that time, it appeared that we were not
19   aware of a confirmation of a Chapter 11 plan, that --
20   on our normal actions that we probably are -- it is in
21   our best interests to oppose the plan, and if it got
22   confirmed, that we would complete the modification as
23   the plan requested.
24        Q    Is there any entry in the notes that show
25   that Wells Fargo became aware at some point that a plan

                                                                   114
 1   had been confirmed in Mr. Mortgagor's Chapter 11?
 2        A    It appears approximately 10/12 of '06 that a
 3   Chapter 11 plan modification -- you know, PB, from/to,
 4   the amounts we have already discussed -- and to change
 5   the interest rate from 8.5 to 7 and the due dates from
 6   what was indicated to 12 of '05, which I would assume
 7   would be approximately when the plan was confirmed.
 8   And shortly thereafter a critical field maintenance
 9   received a request to change those categories.
10        Q    And does Wells Fargo have any policy or
11   procedure that describes or indicates how quickly after
12   a Chapter 11 plan is confirmed that modifications to
13   the loan contained in the plan should be made?
14        A    Not to my knowledge.
15        Q    In your view, is it unusual to have those
16   modifications being put into the system nearly a year
17   after the confirmation?
18        A    I don't necessarily feel that I could be
19   completely unobjective in this regards, since I have
20   reviewed this loan and have a thorough understanding of
21   how confusing it was during the time frame of the --
22   knowledge -- that we were trying to get a grasp of what
23   the Chapter 11 plan really stated and -- and the
24   stipulation agreement that you are well aware of and
25   all of the other things that have complied [sic]

                                                                   115
 1   against this loan.  I don't necessarily feel that in
 2   this case the time frame was out of whack, but . . .
 3        Q    That really wasn't a fair question.  I think
 4   you've said that this is only the second Chapter 11
 5   file you've seen, so asking you if it's unusual, it's
 6   50 percent usual and 50 percent unusual.
 7        A    Thank you.
 8        Q    Can you explain what took place at Wells
 9   Fargo between the confirmation order on November 9th of
10   2005 and the modification of the loan accounting on
11   October 12th, 2006?
12        A    From my speaking with people, speaking with
13   our attorney, it appears that there was some confusion
14   over exactly what the plan was calling for, how our
15   systems needed to be adjusted to comply with it, and
16   that there was a possible stipulation order in effect
17   that may or may not modify even what the plan had said.
18   So we were trying to make sure that -- through
19   clarification of our attorneys, that when we did do the
20   critical field maintenance on the loan that we were 100
21   percent accurate and in compliance with the Chapter 11
22   plan.
23        Q    On the day after the entry on the Chapter 11
24   plan, there's an entry that indicates, I guess, a
25   fidelity code of RZZ, and then it has three

                                                                   116
 1   three-letter words or abbreviations or something
 2   followed by the five-letter word, "EMAIL."  What does
 3   that entry mean?
 4             MR. DI SPIGNA:  What date?
 5             THE WITNESS:  He's --
 6             MR. FINNER:  October 13th.
 7             THE WITNESS:  He's talking -- right here.
 8             Received communication per e-mail.
 9   BY MR. FINNER:
10        Q    And in these loan notes, does Wells Fargo
11   have any policies or procedures that when an operator
12   indicates in the notes that they've received a
13   communication that they should indicate who the
14   communication came from or what it was about?
15        A    Not to my knowledge.
16        Q    As a user of this system, does the 10/13
17   entry by RZZ add in any material way to your knowledge
18   of what's happening in this loan?
19        A    No.
20        Q    The next line above that, 10/16/06, "REPORTED
21   TO MI COMPANY" is followed by a code, "(S-23K)."  Is
22   there a way to determine what that code refers to?
23        A    If there is, I am unaware of it.
24        Q    Do you know if it is a claim against the
25   mortgage insurance policy?

                                                                   117
 1        A    Not to my knowledge.
 2        Q    Have you ever personally been involved with
 3   filing or submitting a claim against a mortgage
 4   insurance policy?
 5        A    Not personally.
 6        Q    Do you know whether the mortgage insurance
 7   policy on this particular loan of Mr. Mortgagor's would
 8   provide for periodic payments on claims, as opposed to
 9   one lump sum claim in payment?
10        A    I do not know.
11        Q    At the top of this particular page of the
12   notes, there's a note that starts out, "LOG."  What's
13   the difference between "LOG" and "COL"?
14        A    "COL" is a collection note.  "LOG" is a log
15   note.
16        Q    Uh-huh.
17        A    They are indications of the department in
18   which the note is entered.  It helps you understand,
19   you know, who or where that note is coming from.
20        Q    Okay.  And, on 10/20/06, going back down,
21   there's an entry by Fidelity Code KOV that says
22   "CFMREQ" that starts out by talking about critical
23   field maintenance.  Is that the more complete
24   description of the critical field maintenance that we
25   previously saw in the statements in the

                                                                   118
 1   October/November 2006 period?
 2        A    It appears that that is -- that is what that
 3   note is indicating, that --
 4        Q    And then --
 5        A    -- that was a request that was done at that
 6   time.
 7        Q    So, yeah, is that the interest rate change
 8   and principal balance change that we've previously
 9   discussed?
10        A    It appears that that is what they are doing,
11   or attempting to correct at that time frame, per those
12   notes from that point -- from, actually, approximately
13   10/12 through 10/20 and shortly thereafter.
14        Q    At the top of the page there's another
15   critical field maintenance request.  What was that all
16   about?
17        A    In review of the loan history, after the
18   original maintenance, critical field maintenance, was
19   done, it was determined that $640 was applied to the
20   other Mortgagor loan in error at the beginning of the
21   bankruptcy session.  At that point, in order for those
22   funds to be placed back into this system, we had to go
23   back and undo what we had done to make sure that those
24   payments were included in the critical field
25   maintenance that was done on this loan.

                                                                   119
 1        Q    Okay.  On the next page, coming forward,
 2   there are two log entries dated January 9, 2007.  Is
 3   that not on there?
 4        A    You do not have that included in this batch
 5   of documentation.
 6             MR. FINNER:  I'm going to mark another
 7        exhibit as Exhibit No. 9.
 8             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 9 was marked for
 9   identification.)
10   BY MR. FINNER:
11        Q    And can you review this document and tell me
12   what it is and where it came from?
13        A    These are property preservation invoices that
14   were provided per my request in order to comply with
15   the request for documentation for this depo.
16        Q    And what information is contained in this
17   batch of documents?
18        A    It is, as I stated, a property preservation
19   invoice.  It indicates who -- the company that created
20   the invoice, that Wells Fargo -- it was sent to Wells
21   Fargo, the invoice number, the loan number, the type of
22   loan, their file reference number, the borrower's name,
23   the property address, the description of the charge,
24   and the date the event of that charge occurred.
25        Q    And on the top of the stack is that a

                                                                   120
 1   property inspection invoice?
 2        A    It appears to be, yes.
 3        Q    Who orders the inspections of your
 4   collateral?
 5        A    By "orders" please clarify.
 6        Q    Well, what does the first page of Exhibit
 7   No. 9 reflect?
 8        A    It reflects that on 6/20 of '06 an inspection
 9   of the Indigo Street property was done, and they are
10   asking to be paid $15 for it.
11        Q    Why did the inspector go to the Indigo
12   Street property on that date to inspect it?
13        A    I'm assuming that he was requested to do so
14   by his company.
15        Q    And what's his company?
16        A    First American Field Services.
17        Q    Okay.  And did First American Field Services
18   do that in response to any request made by Wells Fargo?
19        A    I do not know.  I would assume that -- that
20   they were under some sort of direction from us, but I
21   do not have specific knowledge in regards to this
22   particular transaction.
23        Q    And, in the ordinary course of servicing a
24   loan that's secured by a piece of real estate or a
25   home, does Wells Fargo's inspection vendor just go to

                                                                   121
 1   properties on its own, or does Wells Fargo tell it to
 2   do that?
 3        A    They are -- they do have a contract with us,
 4   First American Field vendor.  We do request them to do
 5   our inspections.  Whether they choose to do them, when
 6   they choose to do them, is not something necessarily
 7   controlled by Wells Fargo.
 8        Q    So how does that work?  Does Wells Fargo give
 9   them addresses of collateral that is subject to
10   inspection and the vendor decides when and how often
11   they're going to ride by and submit an invoice?
12        A    I do not know the exact internal processes of
13   the field vendor and Wells Fargo's relationship.  I
14   know, as Wells Fargo, we request that an inspection be
15   done approximately once every month.
16        Q    And when you say you request that an
17   inspection be done once every month, do you make that
18   request once every month, or do you make one request to
19   the vendor that they go do on a monthly basis?
20        A    As I say, I do not know the -- the exact
21   agreements that we have with -- with the field vendor
22   on whether that is done every month or whether that is
23   done once and we just tell them to stop if something
24   occurs.  I do not know.
25             MR. FINNER:  Can we take, like, a 15-minute

                                                                   122
 1        break?
 2             (A recess was taken.)
 3   BY MR. FINNER:
 4        Q    I guess my last question about the property
 5   inspections in this invoice stack is there are charges
 6   for $15, $25, and $35.  And do you have any way of
 7   knowing what the difference is?
 8        A    Just by the line item description that is
 9   indicated on the invoice.  $15 states that it is a
10   subsequent inspection.  The 25 states the line item was
11   a rush inspection.  And the $35 says it was a trip
12   charge, which I have no idea what "trip charge"
13   indicates.
14        Q    In the '70s we had an idea.  That's why it --
15        A    I was --
16        Q    -- was more expensive.
17        A    -- not around then.
18        Q    And, just so I understand, your borrower has
19   absolutely no control over how often the property is
20   inspected or what is charged for those inspections; is
21   that right?
22        A    Not to my knowledge.
23        Q    Okay.
24             MR. DI SPIGNA:  If he made his payments on
25        time . . .

                                                                   123
 1             MR. FINNER:  Doesn't take those trips, those
 2        expensive trips.
 3   BY MR. FINNER:
 4        Q    On page 18 -- on page 31, so if you go to the
 5   back and count forward five or six pages, you'll see an
 6   invoice from McCalla Raymer, M-c, C-a-l-l-a,
 7   R-a-y-m-e-r.
 8             THE COURT REPORTER:  Perfect.  Oh, good.
 9        Thanks.
10             THE WITNESS:  To be exact.
11   BY MR. FINNER:
12        Q    And that indicates that Wells Fargo was
13   charged a total of $585 for legal services on
14   January 13, 2006; is that your understanding of this
15   document?
16        A    Invoice date was January 7th, and it
17   indicates that the events of those charges were January
18   13th, yes.
19        Q    And one of those charges was for Proof of
20   Claim.  Do you know if a Proof of Claim was ever filed
21   in this case?
22        A    I believe one was filed at one point.
23   Whether it was filed by McCalla or who filed it, I do
24   not know.
25        Q    And does your system contain an indication of

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 1   when the bar date for the filing of Proof of Claim is?
 2        A    It is possible that that is contained within
 3   the bankruptcy section of the system.
 4        Q    Do you know if it's Wells Fargo's policy to
 5   pay for proofs of claim that are filed after the bar
 6   date?
 7        A    I do not know.
 8        Q    Do you know if it's Wells Fargo's policy to
 9   charge its borrowers for proofs of claim that are filed
10   after the bar date?
11        A    I do not know.
12        Q    Do any of the reports that we've already gone
13   over have a place that would indicate a bar date for
14   the filing of a Proof of Claim?
15        A    Not thus far.
16             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 10 was marked for
17   identification.)
18   BY MR. FINNER:
19        Q    I've marked Exhibit No. 10.  Oh, before we go
20   to No. 10, in No. 9 can you turn to the BPO.
21             MR. DI SPIGNA:  What page?
22             MR. FINNER:  I'm getting there.
23             THE WITNESS:  Do you mean the drive-by
24        property evaluation?
25   BY MR. FINNER:

                                                                   125
 1        Q    Yes.  Since I'm not in the business, I
 2   shouldn't be throwing around abbreviations like that.
 3   What is a BPO?
 4        A    Well, BPO stands for broker price option,
 5   which is an evaluation by a broker on the estimated
 6   value of the house, given current market conditions and
 7   comparisons that have either sold or are about to be
 8   sold in general areas similar to that of the property.
 9        Q    Okay.  And there's this report from Premier
10   Asset Services contained within Exhibit No. 9.  Would
11   you consider that to be a BPO?
12        A    Again, are you still referring to this
13   document or are you referring to another document?
14        Q    I think there's a cover sheet a page or two
15   forward.  Yeah, that's what I'm looking at.
16        A    Yeah.  Okay.  It appears to be an evaluation
17   of property estimates; whether it would be technically
18   a BPO, I do not know.
19        Q    What does Wells Fargo use these reports for?
20        A    Multiple reasons.
21        Q    Do you know why Wells Fargo would have
22   ordered a property evaluation on the Indigo Street
23   collateral in the fall of 2003?
24        A    As I was not involved in the transaction, I
25   do not know the reasoning behind it.

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 1        Q    And does your review of the system entries
 2   indicate any events that took place that ordinarily
 3   would be accompanied by a property evaluation?
 4        A    If you don't mind me referring back to
 5   Exhibit 8, I can see if there are any notes that would
 6   indicate something during that time frame.
 7             Did you receive the supplemental notes that
 8   were sent in regards to this?
 9        Q    Ric sent me an e-mail last week, which didn't
10   seem to have anything in the post-foreclosure time
11   frame, but I may not have looked at it -- so you don't
12   see anything in Exhibit 8 that tells you --
13             MR. DI SPIGNA:  That just was sent to you on
14        July 17th.
15             MR. FINNER:  That was the day before
16        yesterday.
17             THE WITNESS:  The time frame in question is
18        absent from the notes that are sitting in front of
19        me.  When I realized that in my review of the
20        loan, I went back to our department that maintains
21        the purged records from the system and
22        re-requested that time frame so that we could make
23        sure that we were fully complying with your
24        request.  And I am sorry that it is not available
25        at this time.  But, given that I have no notes, I

                                                                   127
 1        cannot properly respond.
 2   BY MR. FINNER:
 3        Q    Okay.  There's an invoice at the -- from
 4   Premier Asset Services for $150.  Was that charged to
 5   the loan?  It's the next page backward.
 6        A    This way or this way?
 7        Q    Yeah -- no, first way.
 8        A    That's a foreclosure invoice.  You mean this
 9   125?
10        Q    Yes.
11        A    If you don't mind me going back and referring
12   to the payment history, I can tell you whether it was
13   applied to the loan or not.
14             It appears that it was applied to the loan
15   and was listed as a BPO charge at the price of $125.
16        Q    And can you describe for us just what it is
17   that Wells Fargo and Mr. Mortgagor are paying for?
18        A    Well, in this case we were paying for an
19   evaluation of the asset in regards to the loan.
20        Q    So is this an expression of the value of the
21   collateral as of the date of the inspection?
22        A    It would be one person's opinion of what that
23   collateral may or may not be worth at that time.
24        Q    And does Wells Fargo's file contain, to your
25   knowledge, any other opinions of the value of the

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 1   Indigo Street collateral in the 2003/2004 time frame?
 2        A    Not to my knowledge.
 3        Q    We're done with Indigo Street.
 4             Have you ever seen Exhibit 10 before?
 5        A    I didn't realize Exhibit 10 was on its way.
 6        Q    We're almost done with Indigo Street.
 7        A    I have not seen this exact version thereof.
 8   I -- there are -- there are some system notes that
 9   indicate, you know, a POC, but does not give the actual
10   copy thereof, so . . .
11        Q    Does Wells Fargo have policies, procedures,
12   or guidelines with regard to how proofs of claim are
13   prepared for loans that have borrowers in bankruptcy?
14        A    Not to my knowledge.  The courts have
15   guidelines.
16        Q    Does Wells Fargo have any policies or
17   procedures which require the filings of proofs of claim
18   by its outside vendors before the bar dates in the
19   proceedings in which the proofs of claim are being
20   filed?
21        A    I do not know.
22             MR. FINNER:  I'm going to mark Exhibit No.
23        11.
24             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 11 was marked for
25   identification.)

                                                                   129
 1   BY MR. FINNER:
 2        Q    Before we get onto that, are you aware of any
 3   reports that are made by Wells Fargo to the owner of
 4   the loan respecting the preparation or filing of a
 5   Proof of Claim in bankruptcy?
 6        A    I do not know.
 7        Q    No. 11.  And now we are moving on to a
 8   different loan, which I think you know by the number
 9   5166574, which has as collateral property located at
10   11218 Deep Purple in Jacksonville.  Do you know who
11   the owner of that loan is?
12        A    Given the information I have reviewed, the
13   owner in regards to the person living in it or owning
14   the note and mortgage is Max Mortgagor; however, if
15   you're asking who the owner of the actual note is in
16   regards to who we are, I currently do not have that
17   information in my head.
18        Q    Is this a loan that has servicing or
19   ownership involvement by the Federal National Home Loan
20   Mortgage Association?
21        A    It's possible.
22        Q    Have you talked to anybody at Fannie Mae
23   about this loan?
24        A    Personally?  No.
25        Q    Do you know anybody who has?

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 1        A    I believe our attorney has referenced
 2   conversations with them in regards to that.
 3        Q    Well, you can't talk about your conversations
 4   with your attorney, but is there anything that you've
 5   reviewed in your review of the file or the system notes
 6   that indicates that Fannie Mae or anybody at Fannie Mae
 7   has any kind of decision-making authority over the loan
 8   that's secured by the Deep Purple property?
 9        A    I do not recall.
10        Q    Is there a servicing agreement in place on
11   the loan that's secured by the Deep Purple property?
12        A    I don't know.
13        Q    How would you find out?
14        A    I'm not sure.  If there was one, we would
15   request a protective order before providing it, anyway.
16        Q    Do you believe that Wells Fargo is the owner
17   of the loan that's secured by the Deep Purple
18   Property?
19        A    I do not know.
20        Q    Is there anybody at Wells Fargo that knows
21   who owns this loan?
22        A    It is possible, given my computer system,
23   that I may be able to determine that information.  As
24   for recalling it off the top of my head, I do not
25   remember.

                                                                   131
 1        Q    Is there anybody at Wells Fargo whose job it
 2   is to know who owns the loans that it is servicing?
 3        A    Depending -- yes and no.  Servicing
 4   acquisitions deals with our investors and the note
 5   owners, but as for them knowing an exact loan and
 6   knowing who the investor is on that exact loan -- may
 7   or may not be the case.  I probably -- like I said,
 8   given my computer system and being able to look up some
 9   things -- could determine that; however, at this moment
10   I cannot recall.
11        Q    Okay.  So there is a report that you can
12   generate on the Fidelity system that identifies the
13   note owner?
14        A    Not a report.
15        Q    You can't generate --
16        A    There is an indication of who the note owner
17   may be, plus, there's notes, plus, there's assignments
18   to the notes.
19        Q    So if you go back to the office tomorrow and
20   the first thing you think about when you get to your
21   desk is, gosh, I want to know who owns this note, what
22   would you do to determine that information?
23        A    I would look up in the system what the
24   acquisition codes on the mortgage were.  I would have
25   to contact our servicing acquisitions department to

                                                                   132
 1   determine what processor dealt with those codes.  And
 2   that processor may or may not have a report that would
 3   be able to determine -- above and beyond going through
 4   the note and the assignments, which would be easier,
 5   looking at the imaging system.
 6        Q    Is it Wells Fargo's policy to file
 7   foreclosure complaints in state court under its name
 8   rather than the name of its note owner?
 9        A    I am unaware of any policy that would
10   indicate one way or the other.
11        Q    Is it Wells Fargo's policy to file proofs of
12   claim and other documents in bankruptcy proceedings
13   under its own name rather than the name of the note
14   owner?
15        A    I'm unaware of any policy that would indicate
16   one way or the other.
17        Q    If you wanted to know whether there was a
18   policy, what would you do to find out?
19        A    Ask.
20        Q    Who would you ask?
21        A    My managerial team, my supervisory team, my
22   co-workers.
23        Q    So you'd be asking Mr. Kline or Ms. Teagle?
24        A    Uh-huh.
25        Q    And the reason -- and it's not a question

                                                                   133
 1   that's ever come up in connection with your performance
 2   of your work duties before; is that a fair summary?
 3        A    It is not something I have had to ask up
 4   until this point, but I have a feeling I'm asking when
 5   I get back to work.
 6        Q    Could you review Exhibit No. 11 and describe
 7   this document for us.
 8        A    Complaint for foreclosure and to enforce a
 9   lost loan document -- or, at least, lost loan
10   documents.  Sorry.
11        Q    How did this document come to be filed?
12        A    Through the court system.
13        Q    Did Wells Fargo direct that it be filed?
14        A    We would have hired the attorney to file a
15   foreclosure action on our behalf.
16        Q    And --
17        A    Whether we directed this exact document is
18   another question.
19        Q    Did you instruct -- does Wells Fargo instruct
20   its foreclosure attorneys whether the foreclosure is to
21   be filed in the name of Wells Fargo or some other
22   entity?
23        A    I believe the instructions that I have read
24   in the past indicated to look at the chain of title on
25   the file.

                                                                   134
 1        Q    Was a counterclaim filed in this foreclosure
 2   proceeding?
 3        A    I do not know.
 4             MR. FINNER:  Let me mark Exhibit No. 12.
 5             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 12 was marked for
 6   identification.)
 7             THE WITNESS:  Come on counterclaim, come on.
 8   BY MR. FINNER:
 9        Q    Have you ever seen this document before?
10        A    This particular one?  No.  Things of this
11   nature?  Yes.
12        Q    Do you know how this document would have come
13   to have been prepared?
14        A    It would have been prepared by our attorneys'
15   offices and reviewed and signed by somebody within the
16   Wells Fargo Corporation.
17        Q    And in this case it was signed by a Mr. Reed.
18   Do you know Mr. Reed?
19        A    Not personally.
20        Q    Do you know if he provided the figures that
21   went into this affidavit?
22        A    I do not know.
23        Q    Do you know if he's still employed by Wells
24   Fargo?
25        A    I do not know.

                                                                   135
 1        Q    On the second page of Exhibit No. 12 there is
 2   a list of charges.  And the third charge down is an
 3   entry for late charges.  And underneath that there is a
 4   parenthetical comment.  Could you tell us whether Wells
 5   Fargo has any policies or procedures that relate to
 6   when late charges accrue in a property that has gone
 7   into default or foreclosure?
 8        A    As far as I am aware, since the loan is
 9   accelerated to the full maximum of the loan, then late
10   charges are no longer an option.
11        Q    And is that also the case in a bankruptcy?
12        A    Well, a bankruptcy is an acceleration of the
13   loan.
14        Q    If the bankruptcy is filed after the
15   acceleration, does it change that result?
16        A    Well, it is -- a bankruptcy by nature is a
17   reorganization of one sort or another; so, therefore,
18   is it no longer an acceleration because you're
19   reorganizing the debt.
20        Q    Okay.  And that's your understanding over a
21   number of proceedings, that bankruptcy is perhaps a
22   deceleration of the loan?
23        A    That is my personal understanding.  I do not
24   necessarily know that there are any policies or
25   procedures of Wells Fargo that would back up that

                                                                   136
 1   personal understanding.
 2        Q    Is that a position that Wells Fargo has taken
 3   in any of the litigations that you've been involved
 4   with?
 5        A    Not to my knowledge.
 6        Q    Where was the other Chapter 11 bankruptcy you
 7   were involved with?
 8        A    What locale?
 9        Q    Yes, or court.
10        A    Ohio.
11        Q    Do you know which district in Ohio?
12        A    Not off the top of my head.
13        Q    Did you ever have to go to court there?
14        A    No.
15        Q    Did you ever have to go for depositions
16   there?
17        A    No.
18        Q    Do you know the name of the borrower?
19        A    That's confidential information.
20        Q    Do you know the name of the debtor in that
21   bankruptcy proceeding?
22        A    The last name was Barker.  I do not remember
23   the first name at this time.
24        Q    B-a-r-k-e-r?
25        A    I believe so.

                                                                   137
 1        Q    Thank you.
 2             MR. FINNER:  I'm going to mark Exhibit
 3        No. 13.
 4             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 13 was marked for
 5   identification.)
 6   BY MR. FINNER:
 7        Q    Have you ever seen Exhibit No. 13 before?
 8        A    No.
 9        Q    Do you know what it reflects?
10        A    It appears to be a final summary judgment in
11   regards to a foreclosure on Mr. Mortgagor.
12        Q    There's a handwritten line through the late
13   charges amount on the first page of this exhibit.  Do
14   you know what that reflects?
15        A    No, I do not.
16        Q    Has it ever been your experience that judges
17   in foreclosure proceedings will deny Wells Fargo's
18   request to receive certain fees or charges?
19             MR. DI SPIGNA:  Only in Duval.
20             THE WITNESS:  It is at a judge's discretion
21        whether they choose to allow or disallow any
22        charge requested by a mortgage company.
23   BY MR. FINNER:
24        Q    And have you seen other files where charges
25   have been disallowed by judges?

                                                                   138
 1        A    Yes.
 2        Q    I'd like you to turn to the second page of
 3   Exhibit No. 13 and, looking at the paragraph that's
 4   numbered 7, tell me if you're aware of the judge in the
 5   Deep Purple foreclosure permitting any post-judgment
 6   fees to be added to the loan.
 7        A    He is stating that, should the property
 8   continue to sale, that we have the right to advance any
 9   monies in order to protect the lien, but that we should
10   notify the Court of such advances.
11             MR. FINNER:  Can you read the question back?
12             (The previous question was read by the court
13        reporter.)
14             THE WITNESS:  He's allowing them, with notice
15        of the Court . . .
16   BY MR. FINNER:
17        Q    I'm listening.  Okay.
18             And do you know if Wells Fargo ever asked for
19   permission to add any particular fees to the loan?
20        A    I do not know.
21        Q    Would any of the documents that you've
22   reviewed prior to this examination indicate whether
23   such a request had been made?
24        A    I am not aware of any such indication.
25             (Plaintiff's Composite Exhibit No. 14 was

                                                                   139
 1   marked for identification.)
 2   BY MR. FINNER:
 3        Q    I'm going to give you a composite exhibit
 4   that's been marked as No. 14.  Have you seen these
 5   documents before?
 6        A    A few of them I have seen.  It appears that
 7   there are some in this package that I have not
 8   previously seen.
 9        Q    Would you like to take a minute to review
10   them?
11        A    No.
12        Q    Between the -- I think it's the second and
13   third pages or the third and fourth pages of Exhibit
14   No. 14.  The statements indicate a change in the
15   principal balance and interest rate.  Could you find
16   that in that exhibit and describe when and how that
17   took place?
18        A    It appears that, sometime between the
19   statement dated 11/17 of '06 and the statement dated
20   2/26 of '09, that the interest rate went from 8.5
21   percent to 7 percent and that the principal balance
22   went from approximately $82,211.76 to 118,952 and 60
23   cents.
24        Q    Are those transactions that you've previously
25   described as critical field modifications?

                                                                   140
 1        A    Critical field maintenance, yes.  That would
 2   be indication that sometime in that time frame a
 3   critical field maintenance was done.
 4        Q    And do you know at whose request or under
 5   what circumstances this particular critical field
 6   maintenance was performed?
 7        A    At the request of our bankruptcy department
 8   in an effort to comply with the Chapter 11 plan.  At
 9   exactly what time, I do not recall.
10        Q    Do these statements show the effective date
11   of the modification?
12        A    By "effective date," please clarify.
13        Q    Well, let's look just at the interest rate
14   reduction.  Is there any way to determine from these
15   statements at what point the lower rate of interest
16   started accruing on the loan?
17        A    These documents do not indicate that.
18        Q    On the, I guess, second page of Exhibit
19   No. 14, is a statement dated February 26.
20        A    Yes, it is.
21        Q    Okay.  And how is the amount indicated as
22   overdue payments calculated?  Is that calculated in
23   reference to a particular date that's in the system?
24        A    Yes, it is.
25        Q    And how would that date be shown or

                                                                   141
 1   determined?
 2        A    It is shown in the system as not reflective
 3   on this document.
 4        Q    And is there another report that would show
 5   that?
 6        A    It would be indicated in the payment history.
 7        Q    What about the unpaid late charges; how are
 8   they calculated?
 9        A    Again, this report only gives a total balance
10   to -- in order to calculate exact amounts of late
11   charges and what this total implies, payment history.
12        Q    There's an indication on this February 26th
13   statement for other charges.  How would you determine
14   what those other charges referred to?
15        A    Payment history.
16        Q    Does payment history have a line that says,
17   this is what other charges are and this is what they
18   refer to?
19        A    No.  It would indicate any other charges that
20   would have affected the loan during that time frame.
21        Q    And that $30 charge on the February 26th
22   statement, is that a charge that was made in that
23   statement month, or could that have been made at any
24   time during the loan?
25        A    It could have been made at any time during

                                                                   142
 1   the loan, considering your prior statements indicate
 2   that the $30 charge was there, as well.
 3        Q    Does Wells Fargo have any kind of a mission
 4   statement regarding accurate accounting for charges and
 5   accruals on its borrower's loans?
 6        A    If we do, I am unaware of it.
 7        Q    You indicated previously that somebody had
 8   told you that you strive for accuracy in statements.
 9   Has anybody made any statements to you regarding other
10   ways in which Wells Fargo seeks to be accurate in its
11   accounting?
12        A    Just that we seek to be accurate in general.
13   It's not that it's specific to accounting, and it was
14   not specific to mortgage statements.
15        Q    Was that an offhanded remark that was made to
16   you, or was it made in a particular context?
17        A    As I've stated before, I do not recall.
18        Q    Is it a remark that you've heard once or many
19   times?
20        A    I do not know.
21        Q    You personally strive for accuracy; is that a
22   fair summary of one of the things that you bring to
23   your job performance?
24        A    I would hope everybody does.
25        Q    Does Wells Fargo have any institutional

                                                                   143
 1   training or manuals or procedures that supplement or
 2   relate to the hope that you have just expressed?
 3        A    Not to my knowledge.
 4        Q    Has Wells Fargo ever said to you, as an
 5   employee in its institutional capacity, "We expect all
 6   of our employees to be accurate"?
 7        A    In those exact terms?  No.
 8        Q    And what terms has it made similar
 9   expressions to you?
10        A    In the fact that I get audited every month on
11   my files for -- to be in compliance with the accuracies
12   that they request of us.  It is not that we -- they
13   require us to be accurate.  It's that we should all
14   strive for that.
15        Q    Describe how --  I'm sorry.
16        A    Never mind.  Sorry.
17        Q    Describe how that auditing takes place.
18        A    We have a person that goes into our system
19   and into our files themselves, reviews them for certain
20   criteria, and gives us a point ratio, depending on our
21   compliance with the set criticulum [phonetic] -- I am
22   mispronouncing that word.
23        Q    Criteria.
24        A    Thank you.  And given that point ratio
25   depends on whether we have passed or failed that audit

                                                                   144
 1   report.
 2        Q    And is that person somebody within your
 3   department?
 4        A    No.
 5        Q    Are they associated with another department?
 6        A    They are specifically for auditing.  They do
 7   not necessarily comply to any specific department.
 8        Q    Is it always the same person every month?
 9        A    In most cases.
10        Q    What's that person's name?
11        A    I do not know them personally.
12        Q    And does that person audit litigation files
13   only?
14        A    As far as I am aware.
15        Q    Do you know what auditing is done of files
16   within the bankruptcy department?
17        A    I do not.
18        Q    Since Mr. Mortgagor filed bankruptcy, has the
19   accounting for his loan been performed within the
20   bankruptcy department, or has somebody else been
21   responsible for that?
22        A    Both.
23        Q    What functions have been performed within the
24   bankruptcy department?
25        A    When a borrower is in bankruptcy, the funds

                                                                   145
 1   are initially handled by the bankruptcy department
 2   because of the Chapter 13 split difference between pre
 3   and post and to know how those funds need to be
 4   applied.  So the bankruptcy person reviews the loan for
 5   how the funds should be applied, given the bankruptcy
 6   criteria, and then forward on to the cash department to
 7   apply those funds directly to the account.
 8        Q    And that's for incoming payments; is that
 9   right?
10        A    Yes.
11        Q    How are accruals handled in a bankruptcy?
12        A    Accruals?
13        Q    Accounting for the running of interest and
14   the addition to the loan balances of other charges such
15   as some of the escrow items that we've discussed.
16        A    I do not know.
17             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 15 was marked for
18   identification.)
19   BY MR. FINNER:
20        Q    I've marked Exhibit No. 15.
21             Tell us what this document is, please.
22        A    It appears to be notification of a new
23   monthly mortgage amount.
24        Q    Does the document indicate to you whether it
25   was actually ever sent outside of Wells Fargo?

                                                                   146
 1        A    It has an address header indicating a
 2   Jacksonville Beach, Florida, address.  The document
 3   itself would -- does not indicate any other means of
 4   knowledge to external transport.
 5        Q    There are a lot of codes at the top.  Do you
 6   know what they mean?
 7        A    They're internal codes which indicate the
 8   fields that need to be completed within the letter
 9   itself.
10        Q    And the document doesn't contain any
11   indication in its codes or elsewhere whether it was
12   actually printed and mailed?
13        A    Well, you have a copy of it, so it was
14   printed.  Whether it was mailed, it does not give
15   indication.
16        Q    Does it say when it was printed?
17        A    Not specifically, no.
18        Q    The second page of the document, can you
19   describe why that's different from the first page?
20        A    The second page is -- the to-address is
21   blank, or what they indicate as the title, which is
22   indicated in that code section up here.  You'll see on
23   the first page it says "TITLE=Debtor Attorney," and it
24   says Wendell.
25             On this one it says, "TITLE=Trustee

                                                                   147
 1   Attorney."  I do not believe our trustee in this case
 2   has his own attorney, but I could be mistaken.  And,
 3   therefore, there was no information to be put in there
 4   and therefore no to-address.
 5        Q    Was an escrow analysis performed
 6   contemporaneous or shortly before this letter was
 7   generated?
 8        A    That is what the letter indicates, yes.
 9        Q    Have you seen such an escrow analysis?
10        A    No.
11        Q    And what's the date on that letter?  I'm
12   sorry.
13        A    February 3rd of '05.
14             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 16 was marked for
15   identification.)
16   BY MR. FINNER:
17        Q    Describe what No. 16 is and why Wells Fargo
18   would have generated this document.
19        A    It is an indication that there are some
20   possibilities of a cancellation or a termination of a
21   PMI that is on the loan in reference.
22        Q    Have you ever seen any indication that the
23   loan that's secured by the Deep Purple property has a
24   mortgage insurance policy on it?
25        A    Yes.

                                                                   148
 1        Q    What indication have you seen?
 2        A    A monthly disbursement from the payment
 3   history.
 4        Q    Do you know who the insurer is?
 5        A    I do not.
 6        Q    Do you have any records that would indicate
 7   who the insurer is?
 8        A    There may be records that I am unaware of.
 9        Q    Does Wells Fargo maintain a copy of the
10   policy?
11        A    If the policy is available, we -- yes, there
12   may be a policy out there.  I'm unaware of it.
13        Q    And has Wells Fargo made a claim against that
14   policy?
15        A    Not to my knowledge.
16        Q    Are there any documents in your system that
17   would tell you whether Wells Fargo has made a claim
18   against a mortgage insurance policy?
19        A    It would be indicated in our note system.
20             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 17 was marked for
21   identification.)
22   BY MR. FINNER:
23        Q    I've marked Exhibit No. 17.
24             Can you describe what this document is and
25   what it refers to?

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 1        A    It is a Customer Account Activity Statement
 2   generated by myself, running from January 1st of '05
 3   through 6/28 of '07.  It reflects incoming and outgoing
 4   transactions on the borrower's line.
 5        Q    Unlike the account activity statement that we
 6   looked at on the Indigo Street loan, this one seems to
 7   indicate that Wells Fargo has been assessing a late
 8   charge each and every month.  Is that your
 9   understanding of what's been going on in this loan?
10        A    From 6/28 of '07 to 8/16 of '06, I did not
11   see where we were assessing a late charge.  Prior to
12   that it does appear that late charges were being
13   assessed to the account.
14        Q    What happened in August of '06 that would
15   have stopped late charges from being assessed?
16        A    I don't know.
17        Q    Did Mr. Mortgagor become current in that month?
18        A    No.
19        Q    What other events or changes would have taken
20   place to the loan that would have led to a cessation of
21   the late charges?
22        A    A Chapter 13 filing would have.  Summary
23   judgment under the foreclosure is a possibility.  It is
24   also a possibility that at that point the loan
25   transferred to litigation and were -- whoever the

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 1   processor on the loan is put a process stop for the
 2   late fees on there for one reason or another.
 3        Q    So late fees can be stopped without a
 4   critical field maintenance; is --
 5        A    Yes.
 6        Q    -- that correct?
 7             On page 9 of this document, which has an
 8   indication on the top left of 9/15/06 --
 9        A    Uh-huh.
10        Q    -- there are six payment reversals in a row.
11   Do you know why those would have taken place?
12        A    This document would not reflect the reasoning
13   behind the reversals at that time.
14        Q    Are you aware of any event that took place in
15   September of 2006 with respect to this loan?
16        A    Not that I'm aware of, or not that I can
17   recall at this time.
18        Q    On page 5 there are two entries on
19   February 20th, 2007.  They're both Code 147.  Could you
20   describe what those entries are intended to reflect on
21   the loan?
22        A    It appears that we were attempting to adjust
23   the principal balance for some reason.
24        Q    After your review of the file, are you aware
25   of such an adjustment taking place in the loan?

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 1        A    That would have been a critical field
 2   maintenance adjustment in an effort to comply with the
 3   Chapter 11 plan.
 4        Q    And above that there is a new due date.  Is
 5   that also a critical field maintenance adjustment?
 6        A    Yes.
 7        Q    What is the effect on the loan of the
 8   February 23rd late charge adjustment?
 9        A    That is payment of the late charges existing
10   on the account at that time, or at least some of the
11   late charges existing on the account at that time.
12        Q    So the fact --
13             THE COURT REPORTER:  I'm sorry.  "At least
14        some of the late charges" -- what?
15             THE WITNESS:  Existing on the account at that
16        time.
17             THE COURT REPORTER:  Okay.  Thank you.
18   BY MR. FINNER:
19        Q    So the fact that that's shown as a positive
20   number, does that indicate that it's a reduction to the
21   loan balance?
22        A    To the late-charge balance, not the loan
23   balance.  If you -- if you notice, in any time that a
24   late fee is being assessed to the account -- if you
25   will refer back -- it's a number with a negative beside

                                                                   152
 1   of it, indicating an assessment.  That number that you
 2   just referenced is a positive number, indicating a
 3   payment of that amount.
 4        Q    And is there another report that would
 5   indicate who did this and why?
 6        A    It is possible it is contained within the
 7   system notes.
 8        Q    Did we already talk about -- is there a
 9   report that you can generate that describes the
10   accounting for charges and payments that are put in the
11   suspense account?
12        A    Not that is generated through our system.
13   Our system just runs the totals, and you can see the
14   ins and outs thereof, but there isn't one specific
15   report.
16        Q    Okay.  And so there's -- is there anything
17   that you prepared when you became aware of this
18   examination and the subpoena that would indicate what
19   went into and out of the suspense account?
20        A    I'm still in the process of preparing --
21        Q    Do you know if --
22        A    -- an XL spreadsheet that would assist in
23   trying to determine that.
24        Q    Do you know, sitting here today, if the loan
25   that's secured by Deep Purple has a suspense account

                                                                   153
 1   balance?
 2        A    Off the top of my head, I have not completed
 3   my analysis of this loan; so, therefore, I have not
 4   gotten to current.  I'm still looking back then.
 5        Q    Have you done that on a Indigo Street loan?
 6        A    I -- I have completed my initial input of the
 7   information.  I need to go back through and verify
 8   balances before I would feel comfortable providing that
 9   to anybody.
10        Q    When you're done with one of these --
11        A    XLs, I will gladly attend them to my attorney
12   so they can be provided to you.
13        Q    When you're done with one of these file
14   reconsiderations, do you ever get a chance to go back
15   to the departments that messed up in the first place
16   and explain how much work they've caused for you?
17        A    All the time.
18        Q    Does that result in a change to the policies
19   and procedures?
20        A    Not to my knowledge, but, internally, if
21   there is litigation in which a certain department is
22   determined to carry the fault of the litigation, then
23   losses that may be assessed during that litigation
24   would be hit against that specific department.
25        Q    That would screw up their audit rating,

                                                                   154
 1   wouldn't it?
 2             MR. DI SPIGNA:  No soup for you.
 3             THE WITNESS:  No crackers.
 4   BY MR. FINNER:
 5        Q    In June of 2007 Mr. Mortgagor tendered a $3200
 6   payment to Wells Fargo via Mr. Di Spigna, which was
 7   later returned by him.  Are you aware of that payment?
 8        A    June of '07?
 9        Q    Yes.
10        A    I am not aware of that payment.
11        Q    Is there any place in your accounting system
12   that would reflect that?
13        A    It is -- at what time in June?  Because this
14   one only runs through June 28th, so, if it was towards
15   the end of June, it may not be reflected on this
16   accounting system.
17        Q    I believe it may -- well, no, it would have
18   been before the cutoff date of this June 29th
19   statement, both the submission and the return.
20        A    Okay.  If it did not actually hit the loan
21   and was rejected prior to it hitting the loan, then it
22   would not be reflected on the accounting statement, but
23   may or may not be reflected within the notes -- system
24   notes for this loan.
25        Q    And does that reflect payments that are

                                                                   155
 1   received by your external counsel?
 2        A    Only if they notify us thereof.
 3        Q    If they notify you that the payment has come
 4   in, it will be noted on the system but not applied to
 5   the loan until your lawyer actually sends you the
 6   check; is that the way it ordinarily works?
 7        A    Yes and no.
 8        Q    Please describe how you handle payments that
 9   are received not by Wells Fargo's lockbox but by your
10   own legal counsel.
11        A    If it is received through legal counsel, then
12   it -- once -- and once legal counsel has notified us
13   that they have received funds, an internal
14   determination in regards to the status of the loan, in
15   regards to whether those funds are acceptable or not is
16   made and -- and advised to the attorney of whether
17   those funds need to be sent to Wells to be applied to
18   the loan or returned to the borrower as is.
19        Q    And is that all reflected in the system
20   notes?
21        A    It is possible that it is; it is possible
22   that it's not.  It depends on the communications
23   between the attorney and the client.
24        Q    Are you aware of any policies, procedures, or
25   guidelines that let you decide whether you would expect

                                                                   156
 1   to see such a payment reflected or not?
 2        A    I'm not aware of any.
 3             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 18 was marked for
 4   identification.)
 5   BY MR. FINNER:
 6        Q    Going on to Exhibit No. 18, can you review
 7   this and describe what this document is?
 8        A    Continuation of loan history.
 9        Q    And does that cut off at the end of 2004 like
10   the one on Indigo Street?
11        A    Yes.  It ends 12/31 of '04, and the previous
12   one begins 1/1 of '05.
13        Q    I believe it's on -- no.  So this document
14   does not reflect the change in the loan balance from
15   the $80,000 range to the $110,000 range, does it?
16        A    As of the completion of '04, no.
17             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 19 was marked for
18   identification.)
19   BY MR. FINNER:
20        Q    I've marked No. 19.  Can you describe what
21   this document consists of?
22        A    It appears to be a system notes log in
23   regards to the loan in reference.
24        Q    And how far does that notes log extend; does
25   it go through the end of '04?

                                                                   157
 1        A    It appears to be through the end of '04.
 2        Q    Okay.  On the second page of this log, do you
 3   see a number of entries for March 18, '04, down to
 4   2/17/04?
 5        A    I see the time frame that you're referencing.
 6        Q    Okay.  And do you see an entry made by BKYMIS
 7   on 3/16/04 -- or, no, it was made by FHL.
 8        A    Bankruptcy, miscellaneous inquiry.
 9        Q    Okay.  What does the text in that field refer
10   to?
11        A    Miscellaneous bankruptcy inquiry.  It says
12   that a Tammy Gardner called and wanted information in
13   regards to the Proof of Claim, and that she was
14   transferred to the bankruptcy processor.
15        Q    Do you know who Tammy Gardner is?
16        A    I have no idea who Tammy Gardner is.
17        Q    And describe what a bankruptcy processor
18   does.
19        A    Handles the loans while they're in
20   bankruptcy.
21        Q    Below that there's a line that says,
22   "REPORTED TO MI COMPANY," and then it says "(S-23K)."
23   Do you know what that code refers to?
24        A    I do not.
25        Q    Okay.  And I think you've previously

                                                                   158
 1   testified that on the other loan you don't know how to
 2   get ahold of a copy of a report to a mortgage insurance
 3   company; is that the case on this loan, as well?
 4        A    (Inaudible).
 5             THE COURT REPORTER:  I'm sorry?
 6             THE WITNESS:  Yes.
 7   BY MR. FINNER:
 8        Q    Two lines below that, there are two entries
 9   by M2L that say "DELQ STAT = 66," and "DELQ STAT = 67."
10   Do you know what those codes refer to?
11        A    I do not.
12             MR. FINNER:  I'm now marking Exhibit No. 20.
13             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 20 was marked for
14   identification.)
15   BY MR. FINNER:
16        Q    Can you describe what this document is?
17        A    It is a generated report of the letters that
18   are sent out in regards to a loan.
19        Q    And does this refer to the loan that's
20   secured by Deep Purple?
21        A    Yes.
22        Q    Does it indicate whether any claim was ever
23   made on mortgage insurance?
24        A    It does not indicate that a claim has been
25   filed.

                                                                   159
 1        Q    Does it indicate whether any communication
 2   was ever made to the note owner that a Chapter 11 plan
 3   had been confirmed?
 4        A    It does not.  It is strictly for
 5   communication between us and Borrower.
 6             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 21 was marked for
 7   identification.)
 8   BY MR. FINNER:
 9        Q    I've marked Exhibit No. 21.  It's a document
10   that appears to have the same name as you.
11        A    It is because I printed it.  We use document
12   name and our -- our names so that -- because there are
13   multiple people printing to the same printer, we don't
14   confuse whose documents are whose.
15        Q    What does Exhibit No. 21 show?
16        A    It is a bankruptcy history.  It is run in
17   conjunction with the payment histories that we have
18   previously gone over in an effort to help us internally
19   process the pre and post-petition differential.
20        Q    This document seems to show a lot going on in
21   something called debtor suspense.  What does that refer
22   to?
23        A    It is a field set up for when payments are
24   received that may or may not make a full payment
25   amount, and they get put into suspense until they do.

                                                                   160
 1   In this case, it appears that they are using it as a
 2   two-second drop-off before applying -- no, just
 3   indicating receipt.  I take that back -- at least from
 4   the first page thereof.
 5        Q    And who makes the determination whether a
 6   full payment has been received?
 7        A    At that point in time, because it's in the
 8   bankruptcy history, it would be a bankruptcy processor.
 9        Q    Let's go back to the last page of this
10   document.  And, starting from the very bottom, can you
11   describe what each of the entries means going up the
12   page?
13        A    2/19 of '04, it's indicating that processor
14   known as BF1 added a Chapter 11 bankruptcy process to
15   our system.  On 2/20, it indicates that the chapter was
16   changed to a 13 by the same processor.  Again, on 2/20
17   of '04, they changed it back to the Chapter 11 --
18   indicates on 2/3 of '05, a motion for relief was
19   requested.  On 2/4 of '05, it was filed, and 3/8 of
20   '05, that there was a relief hearing of some sort.
21   12/20 of '05, funds were received with a current
22   contractual due date listed on the loan as 3/1 of '04,
23   and that those funds on 12/20 were then put into debtor
24   suspense.
25        Q    And, that contractual due date, is that a

                                                                   161
 1   critical field item?
 2        A    As we've already discussed, yes.  Within this
 3   history it is not because this history is not attached
 4   to the critical fields.
 5        Q    So as long as there's critical field showing
 6   a previous due date, does that modify the determination
 7   whether an incoming payment is applied to the loan or
 8   put into a suspense account?
 9        A    Please restate.  I'm sorry.
10        Q    Okay.  The second line of this shows that
11   you've got a due date of 3/01/04 and an amount coming
12   in on 12/20/05.  And the next chronological line shows
13   that that payment was placed into the debtor's suspense
14   account.  Why was that done?
15        A    Because a determination was made on 12/20
16   that 797 that was received was insufficient for a full
17   and complete payment at that time.
18        Q    And who made that determination?
19        A    The bankruptcy processor.
20        Q    And what factors did the bankruptcy processor
21   take into account in making that determination?
22        A    I do not know.  I'm not that processor.
23        Q    If the critical field had been updated when
24   the plan was confirmed, would that have changed the
25   determination of the bankruptcy processor to put the

                                                                   162
 1   money in suspense rather than apply it to the loan?
 2        A    It's possible.
 3        Q    Was that money eventually applied to the
 4   loan?
 5        A    Yes.
 6        Q    When?
 7        A    On 1/10 of '06.
 8        Q    Did interest continue to accrue on the amount
 9   of the loan as of 12/20 until the payment was applied
10   from suspense?
11        A    Interest is always accruing.
12        Q    So, when the payment comes in, you don't then
13   reduce the principal balance and the accrual of
14   interest on the date of receipt, do you?
15        A    No.
16        Q    Are there any other payments that had an
17   application gap like the one we've just described on
18   the 12/20 payment?
19        A    As you had stated, there were multiple
20   payments throughout this that went into suspense before
21   application, due to, at the time, our system reflecting
22   they were insufficient to make a full payment.
23        Q    Is there a way to determine how much extra
24   interest Mr. Mortgagor's loan was charged because the
25   payments weren't applied to the loan when they came in?

                                                                   163
 1        A    It's not a calculation I could run off the
 2   top of my head.
 3             MR. FINNER:  Will you read back the question,
 4        please.
 5             (The previous question was read by the court
 6        reporter.)
 7             THE WITNESS:  Not to my knowledge.
 8   BY MR. FINNER:
 9        Q    There is no way to determine how much
10   Mr. Mortgagor has been overcharged by this procedure; is
11   that your testimony?
12        A    There is a way to tell.
13             MR. DI SPIGNA:  Object to the form of the
14        question.  It assumes facts not in evidence.
15        Mr. Mortgagor was not overcharged one penny.
16             MR. FINNER:  Thank you, Judge Di Spigna.
17   BY MR. FINNER:
18        Q    You can answer the question.
19        A    It is not a figure that can be calculated
20   with the documentation that has been provided to me
21   during this deposition.  It is possible that a
22   calculation -- if payments had been not applied in a
23   timely manner, a calculation could be created in order
24   to determine the interest that would have been
25   overcharged in that late application of the payment.

                                                                   164
 1        Q    Have you ever seen a calculation like that
 2   made on another account?
 3        A    Yes.
 4        Q    How many accounts have you seen a
 5   calculation --
 6        A    One.
 7        Q    Was that a bankruptcy account?
 8        A    No.
 9        Q    There's a code on page 6 that says -- towards
10   the bottom of the page on 2/3/06, that says, "PROC
11   CHANGE TO E86."  What does that mean?
12        A    I'm sorry.  Could you restate where you were
13   looking?
14        Q    2/3/06, "PROC CHANGE TO E86."
15        A    2/3 of '06.
16             Processor change to Processor E86.
17        Q    And then on May 11th of that year, the
18   processor changed to BF1; am I reading that correctly?
19        A    5/11 of '06, you said?
20        Q    Yes.
21        A    That is what that indicates, yes.
22             MR. DI SPIGNA:  The court reporter's fingers
23        are getting tired.
24             THE WITNESS:  She just had to crack them.
25             MR. FINNER:  We haven't even done five hours.

                                                                   165
 1        I know you've seen worse; right?
 2             THE WITNESS:  I've heard of worse.
 3             MR. DI SPIGNA:  Please don't make me miss my
 4        flight.
 5             MR. FINNER:  If you want to fly me -- if you
 6        guys want to fly me down to Lauderdale tomorrow,
 7        we can pick up there.
 8             MR. DI SPIGNA:  It's not going to do her any
 9        good.
10             MR. FINNER:  Why did we start at eleven?  I
11        thought you --
12             MR. DI SPIGNA:  We started at ten today.
13             MR. FINNER:  No, we started at eleven.
14             THE COURT REPORTER:  Is this on the record?
15             MR. DI SPIGNA:  I don't know.
16             MR. FINNER:  Yeah.  Let's go on the record.
17             THE COURT REPORTER:  I was on the record.
18             MR. DI SPIGNA:  Do you know what time we
19        actually started?
20             THE COURT REPORTER:  Yes, eleven.  It was
21        11:10, actually.
22             MR. FINNER:  We had set that time on your
23        representations, Mr. Di Spigna, that you were
24        going to be arriving by plane this morning and
25        couldn't start any earlier.  So I feel as bad as

                                                                   166
 1        everybody that we're going late into the day, but
 2        we would have started a lot earlier if I had known
 3        you would have been in town.
 4             MR. DI SPIGNA:  I believe I advised you of
 5        that, but let's just get it wrapped up.
 6   BY MR. FINNER:
 7        Q    On February 20 of 2007, $37,478.86 was placed
 8   in the suspense account; is that what this report says?
 9        A    Yes.
10        Q    Where did that money come from?
11        A    It was part of the critical field maintenance
12   in order to clear some of the escrows, and et cetera,
13   on the account in order to comply with the Chapter 11
14   plan.
15        Q    Is there another document that details what
16   that $37,478.86 consisted of?
17        A    Well, we already reviewed that in the payment
18   history.
19        Q    Was it a payment received by Wells Fargo from
20   a mortgage insurance company?
21        A    No.
22        Q    How do you know that?
23        A    In discussions with people that I have
24   already mentioned, in that that was part of their
25   critical field maintenance in order to comply with the

                                                                   167
 1   Chapter 11 plan, the backup documentation for that
 2   critical field maintenance, I am still awaiting.
 3        Q    Is that the way that a loan modification is
 4   ordinarily accounted for by Wells Fargo, using the
 5   suspense account?
 6        A    I do not know.
 7        Q    Have you ever seen any other accounts where a
 8   five-figure deposit into the suspense account was
 9   created in order to try to reconcile the loan with
10   modification?
11        A    Yes.
12        Q    How many?
13        A    A handful.
14        Q    Are you aware of any regulations, rules,
15   procedures, or manuals that describe using large
16   deposits into the suspense account to account for a
17   loan modification?
18        A    No.
19        Q    Do you know from your review of the file and
20   the discussions you've had whose idea that was?
21        A    No.
22        Q    Do you know how much money is in Mr. Mortgagor's
23   suspense account now?
24        A    I have not completed my report in order to
25   determine that.

                                                                   168
 1        Q    If that $37,000 hasn't all been withdrawn by
 2   post-petition payments, does that mean that there's
 3   still money in the suspense account to pay his
 4   mortgage?
 5        A    It appears that at least 3,000 of it was
 6   withdrawn within a few -- withdrawn within eight days
 7   of it being input, per the page that's still sitting in
 8   front of me.
 9        Q    And that's that 2/28 entry adjusting the
10   suspense account by $3700?
11        A    Uh-huh.
12        Q    Is there anybody in Wells Fargo that you
13   would consider an expert on suspense accounting?
14        A    Not to my knowledge.
15        Q    And there are no written procedures regarding
16   suspense accounting that you're aware of?
17        A    Not that I'm aware of.
18        Q    And you're not aware of any manual or other
19   document that would decipher the codes that are shown
20   on Exhibit No. 21?
21        A    Codes on Exhibit 21?  What codes are you
22   referencing to?
23        Q    So far we've talked about two processor
24   codes.
25        A    I have already informed you that I have the

                                                                   169
 1   account to pull up individual process codes, given the
 2   codes.
 3        Q    And at the top of page 1 on the third line
 4   there is a type indication for this loan.  Can you
 5   describe what that means?
 6        A    It indicates what our system is reflecting as
 7   the loan type, whether it be conventional, FHA, VA,
 8   et cetera.  This is indicating that it is a
 9   conventional with a PMI.
10        Q    And does that refer to the loan status at its
11   inception, or as of the date of the report?
12        A    It would reflect what our system showed when
13   I printed this document.
14        Q    So, if, for example, Mr. Mortgagor had responded
15   favorably to one of the letters you sent him saying he
16   had an opportunity to get PMI off the mortgage, would
17   this report no longer show that it was a PMI mortgage?
18        A    If in response to the letters to terminate or
19   cancel the PMI, the PMI was canceled, then this report
20   would show it as a conventional, no longer a PMI.
21        Q    And what if the PMI was terminated according
22   to the terms of the policy; would it still show as a
23   PMI loan?
24        A    I don't know.
25        Q    And you don't know whether the mortgage

                                                                   170
 1   insurance policy on this is still valid after the
 2   loan's modified in Chapter 11, do you?
 3        A    I do not know.
 4             (Plaintiff's Composite Exhibit No. 22 was
 5   marked for identification.)
 6   BY MR. FINNER:
 7        Q    Can you review Exhibit No. 22, please, and
 8   tell us what's contained in this composite exhibit?
 9        A    Invoices.
10        Q    The first page of this, from the Law Offices
11   of David Stern, can you tell from looking at this
12   invoice what the law offices did for Wells Fargo?
13        A    It appears that they prepared a motion for a
14   summary judgment, reviewed a motion filed by the
15   defendant, and cross notice, prepared a summary
16   judgment, and attended a motion for summary judgment
17   hearing in a cursory review.
18        Q    Is there another invoice in there dated
19   June 21, 2004, from the Law Offices of David Stern?
20        A    Yes.
21        Q    And what legal services does that invoice
22   reflect?
23        A    It reflects appearance -- notice of
24   appearance and Proof of Claim.
25        Q    Did Wells Fargo have any input into the

                                                                   171
 1   preparation of the Proof of Claim by the law offices?
 2        A    I'm sure that some of the figures contained
 3   therein would have been provided by Wells Fargo.
 4        Q    Does Wells Fargo review proofs of claim
 5   before they're filed?
 6        A    I do not know.
 7        Q    Do you see two invoices for property
 8   inspections that were conducted in August of 2004?
 9        A    Yes.
10        Q    You previously testified that property
11   inspections are ordinarily conducted once a month; is
12   that right?
13        A    I do not remember my exact wording, but I
14   believe -- is that we request of field services to
15   inspect at least once a month.  When they choose to
16   inspect and how often, I do not have knowledge of the
17   contracts between us and them that would indicate that.
18        Q    And you're not aware of any control that the
19   mortgagor would have over how often inspections are
20   conducted or how much the loan is charged for them; is
21   that right?
22        A    Not to my knowledge.
23        Q    Are there any other items that are advanced
24   on a loan that the mortgagor similarly doesn't have
25   control over whether they're done or how much they're

                                                                   172
 1   charged?
 2        A    Attorneys' fees and costs for any actions
 3   needed in order to enforce the note or mortgage.
 4        Q    And, to your knowledge, there is no
 5   limitation on how much those fees can be?
 6        A    I believe the courts have limitations on some
 7   of those fees.
 8        Q    Does Wells Fargo itself make any effort to
 9   ensure that the fees that are charged against a loan
10   are no higher than they need to be?
11        A    Not to my knowledge.
12             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 23 was marked for
13   identification.)
14   BY MR. FINNER:
15        Q    Have you ever seen Exhibit 23 before?
16        A    Yes.
17        Q    What is it?
18        A    It is the Proof of Claim filed on behalf of
19   Wells Fargo by David Stern's office.
20        Q    To your knowledge, were the figures in this
21   Proof of Claim updated, amended, or revised?
22        A    Not to my knowledge.
23        Q    Is it ordinarily Wells Fargo's procedure to
24   have two proofs of claim or more than one Proof of
25   Claim filed in a given bankruptcy proceeding?

                                                                   173
 1        A    Depends on the circumstances.
 2        Q    When a Proof of Claim says that it will later
 3   be updated or amended, what are the procedures that are
 4   followed in doing that?
 5        A    If it is specifically stated within the Proof
 6   of Claim that it be updated or amended, I believe the
 7   onus is on our attorney to do so.
 8        Q    And is there any monitoring done within Wells
 9   Fargo whether that's done?
10        A    Not to my knowledge.
11        Q    And did you previously testify that the
12   claims bar date in a Chapter 11 is not reflected in
13   your system in the ordinary course?
14        A    I actually believe I stated that it is
15   reflected somewhere within the bankruptcy subsections
16   of our system.
17        Q    And that's not contained in any of the
18   reports that you had generated --
19        A    No --
20        Q    -- for the preparation of today?
21        A    -- it was not.
22             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 24 was marked for
23   identification.)
24   BY MR. FINNER:
25        Q    Have you ever seen Exhibit No. 24 before?

                                                                   174
 1        A    No.
 2        Q    Do you know what this document would reflect?
 3        A    It's a request for a motion for relief from
 4   automatic stay.
 5        Q    Do you know whether Wells Fargo instructed
 6   its attorneys to file this motion?
 7        A    I do not recall.  It is possible that it is
 8   contained within the notes of the system.
 9        Q    Do you know whether there was a hearing held
10   on this motion?
11        A    I do not know.
12        Q    Do you know whether Wells Fargo's attorneys
13   attended that hearing?
14        A    I -- I do not know.
15        Q    Do you know whether Wells Fargo's attorneys
16   notified Wells Fargo that there was to be a hearing on
17   this motion?
18        A    If they did, it would be contained within the
19   system notes.
20        Q    And do you know whether anybody from
21   Wells Fargo was ever requested to testify at that
22   hearing?
23        A    I do not know.
24             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 25 was marked for
25   identification.)

                                                                   175
 1   BY MR. FINNER:
 2        Q    I believe you previously testified that
 3   you're familiar with the contents of Exhibit No. 27
 4   [sic]?
 5        A    I am familiar with the idea of Exhibit 27
 6   [sic].
 7        Q    Is this the first --
 8        A    I have not seen the actual stipulation until
 9   now.
10        Q    I'd like you to take a minute to read it
11   over, then.  It's a work of genius by two brilliant
12   attorneys.
13        A    The two sitting around the table now?
14             MR. DI SPIGNA:  I disavow any responsibility.
15             MR. FINNER:  I disavow any genius, so where
16        does that leave us?
17             (There was an interruption and a discussion
18        off the record.)
19             THE WITNESS:  Okay.
20   BY MR. FINNER:
21        Q    Did Wells Fargo have any input into the
22   preparation of this stipulation?
23        A    From my understanding of the notes that I
24   have read in regards to this loan -- that our
25   bankruptcy department was at least aware of this

                                                                   176
 1   stipulation.
 2        Q    Did anybody at Wells Fargo review and approve
 3   the terms of the stipulation?
 4        A    Without the notes, history, in front of me, I
 5   cannot say for sure.
 6        Q    Did anybody at Wells Fargo approve the review
 7   and approve the balance amounts and payment amounts
 8   contained in the stipulation?
 9        A    Again, without a second look at the notes, I
10   cannot say for certain.
11        Q    And are these notes that we've already looked
12   at as one of the exhibits?
13        A    I believe the notes that we're provided
14   ceased in '04, and it appears that this is dated 10/19
15   of '05, so it would have been outside the realm of
16   those notes.
17        Q    Okay.  And have you had any discussions with
18   anybody at Wells Fargo that knew what was going on
19   before the stipulation was entered?
20        A    I have already gone over my discussions with
21   the people in Wells Fargo and what was discussed.
22        Q    Did anybody at Wells Fargo have an
23   understanding in October of 2005 when the interim
24   payments that are shown under the stipulation would
25   end?

                                                                   177
 1        A    I do not know.
 2        Q    And, if a copy of this stipulation had been
 3   provided to Wells Fargo, would it have been in the file
 4   for you to review in preparation for today's
 5   proceedings?
 6        A    It is possible that it was and it's possible
 7   that it wasn't.
 8        Q    But you don't remember ever seeing it before?
 9        A    I do not recall receiving this document.
10        Q    And do you know when and how the balances and
11   payment amounts that are specified in this stipulation
12   were applied to the loan at Wells Fargo?
13        A    They would have been applied as shown on the
14   payment histories of these two loans on the dates as
15   indicated.
16        Q    Those are the critical field maintenance on
17   each loan that you've already discussed?
18        A    Well, it's the payment history.  You asked
19   the payments that are indicated, which are the 796.73
20   and the 319.16, how and when were they applied.  They
21   were applied as shown on the payment history.
22        Q    Does the payment stipulation say the payments
23   are due in a different amount in a different schedule
24   than the original loan documents?
25        A    It appears that -- yes.

                                                                   178
 1        Q    Is there an adjustment that should be made to
 2   the system on each of those loans to account for those
 3   changes?
 4        A    Yes.
 5        Q    What is that -- what is that adjustment?
 6        A    It would have been a principal balance
 7   adjustment and an insurance rate adjustment.
 8        Q    Were those principal balance and interest
 9   rate adjustments ever applied to the Indigo Street
10   loan?
11        A    Yes.
12        Q    Separate and apart from the adjustment that
13   you described that was made in order to conform with
14   the confirmed plan?
15        A    The critical field maintenance adjustment is
16   an adjustment to the PB and the interest rate.
17        Q    Yes.  And there was only one made on the
18   Indigo Street loan?
19        A    I would have to go back and review the
20   payment history from the Indigo Street loan in order
21   to confirm that answer.
22        Q    Well, we already talked extensively about one
23   adjustment that was made to the Indigo Street loan.
24   It was made in the October/November '06 time frame, and
25   your previous testimony was that it was made in order

                                                                   179
 1   to conform the loan to the confirmed plan.  So, while
 2   you're reviewing that, please tell me if there was
 3   another adjustment that was made to conform the loan to
 4   the stipulation that you have in front of you, Exhibit
 5   No. 27 [sic].
 6        A    Yes.
 7        Q    When was that made?
 8        A    It appears to have been made sometime in the
 9   end of December, beginning of January of '07 -- end of
10   December '06, beginning January of '07.
11        Q    And what were the actual changes that were
12   made to the critical fields with that second
13   maintenance?
14        A    It does not appear that the critical fields
15   were changed, since they already complied.  It appears
16   that an escrow change was done so that the payments
17   were being applied at the rate as requested per the
18   stipulation.
19        Q    And that was done in 2007?
20        A    It appears that that transaction was done end
21   of December of '06 through January of '07.
22        Q    And did somebody at Wells Fargo believe that
23   this stipulation continued through the end of '06,
24   beginning of '07?
25        A    I do not know.

                                                                   180
 1        Q    Do you know who initiated the 06/07 changes
 2   that you've just discussed?
 3        A    To my knowledge and belief, that would have
 4   been Teresa Diaz-Cochran as previously mentioned.
 5        Q    And she's the supervisor of the bankruptcy
 6   department?
 7        A    (Nods head).
 8        Q    And has she made any notes to the system
 9   indicating how this came about?
10        A    It is possible that there are notes that are
11   in the system.  Without those notes in front of me, I
12   cannot say for sure.
13        Q    And they haven't been produced for your aid
14   in preparing for today's examination or for your
15   attorney to produce in compliance with the document
16   request?
17        A    Not as of yet.
18        Q    Was a similar modification made on the Rustic
19   Pines loan?
20        A    Please excuse me for a second.
21             (There was an interruption and a discussion
22   off the record.)
23             THE WITNESS:  It appears that something
24        similar to the reevaluation was done also on the
25        Deep Purple loan approximately February of '07.

                                                                   181
 1   BY MR. FINNER:
 2        Q    Is that that $34,000 --
 3        A    $37,000 suspense adjustment that then
 4   reevaluated other things and adjusted escrow.
 5        Q    And that suspense adjustment is Wells Fargo's
 6   response to the interim stipulation, Exhibit 25, with
 7   regard to the Deep Purple loan?
 8        A    It appears that it was our attempt in order
 9   to comply with that stipulation.
10             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 26 was marked for
11   identification.)
12   BY MR. FINNER:
13        Q    Have you ever seen Exhibit No. 26 before?
14        A    No.
15        Q    It appears to be an amortization table on the
16   Deep Purple loan commencing December of 2005; is that
17   something that Wells Fargo would have prepared?
18        A    I do not know.
19             MR. DI SPIGNA:  Is that in the production we
20        provided to you?
21   BY MR. FINNER:
22        Q    Have you ever seen a document like this other
23   than in the initial closing file for a Wells Fargo
24   loan?
25        A    I have seen reamortization schedules, but not

                                                                   182
 1   one that looks like this.
 2        Q    Was any report of the interim stipulation,
 3   Exhibit No. 25, made to the owners of either the Rustic
 4   Pines or Indigo Street loans?
 5        A    Not to my knowledge.
 6             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 27 was marked for
 7   identification.)
 8   BY MR. FINNER:
 9        Q    Have you ever seen Exhibit No. 27 before?
10        A    Yes.
11        Q    Can you describe when and how you first came
12   across this exhibit?
13        A    It was provided to me -- provided to me by
14   our attorneys's office.
15        Q    Is --
16        A    I believe.
17        Q    Is the date on the first page of Exhibit
18   No. 27 consistent with your understanding of when
19   Mr. Mortgagor's Chapter 11 plan was confirmed?
20        A    Yes.
21        Q    And is it your understanding that, commencing
22   November 8th of 2005, the accounting for his loan
23   changed as a result of Exhibit No. 27?
24        A    The accounting on the loan itself did not
25   change.  The plan asked for it to change and we have

                                                                   183
 1   since attempted to comply.
 2        Q    When did Wells --
 3        A    At that point it had not occurred yet.
 4        Q    I know you've tried real hard to comply.
 5             When did Wells Fargo first learn of this
 6   order of the bankruptcy court?
 7        A    Without the payment history notes, during
 8   this time frame, which may be in there, I do not
 9   recall, but I would hope that our counsel had advised
10   us shortly thereafter.
11        Q    I think we went over the payment history
12   notes, and they don't go past 2004, but if you want to
13   take a look for a minute, that would save us a lot of
14   time after today.
15        A    I know the -- the Purpledidn't go back past
16   '04, but I believe the Indigo Street did; right?
17             MR. DI SPIGNA:  18 and 19 . . .
18             THE WITNESS:  Yeah.  The Indigo Street
19        exhibit went back to beginning of '07.
20             As we have gone over before, on 11/18 there
21        was a note in the Indigo Street property that
22        indicates that we're aware of a Chapter 11 but
23        that -- not that we were aware of it confirming --
24        post that it isn't until approximately 10 of '06
25        that the notes indicate the exact terms of the

                                                                   184
 1        plan.
 2   BY MR. FINNER:
 3        Q    So is it possible that your lawyer's office
 4   didn't forward this order to you for another year after
 5   it was ended?
 6        A    Anything's possible.
 7        Q    Is there any other way to account for an
 8   11-month delay between the entry of a court order
 9   modifying the loan and any attempt to adjust the
10   account made by Wells Fargo?
11        A    I believe it indicates that we have attempted
12   to adjust the account prior to 10 of '06, as you
13   indicated in one of your monthly mortgage statements.
14        Q    I don't think we have anything going back
15   there.
16        A    I could be incorrect in my thinking, but I
17   believe . . .
18        Q    Have you done the calculations to determine
19   what the P and I would be on -- pardon me -- what the
20   principal and interest payment would be on the Rustic
21   or Indigo Street loans in the treatment given it under
22   the plan?
23        A    I have not personally done those
24   calculations.
25        Q    Has somebody else done them such that they're

                                                                   185
 1   in the file?
 2        A    Not to my knowledge.
 3        Q    So, if this order was applied to the loan
 4   earlier than October of 2006, you would expect to see
 5   the principal and interest payment shown on the monthly
 6   mortgage statements to be modified accordingly; is that
 7   your testimony?
 8        A    Something would have been modified on the
 9   loan.
10        Q    I don't think it was, and I don't want to
11   take up your time looking for it.
12        A    It's fine.  Like I said, I could be imagining
13   things.
14             MR. FINNER:  Now we're caught up to the
15        yellow stickers, and this is 28; right?
16             MR. DI SPIGNA:  Yes.
17             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 28 was marked for
18   identification.)
19   BY MR. FINNER:
20        Q    And before we talk about 28, are you aware of
21   any report that was made to the owners of the loans of
22   the confirmation order?
23             Do we need to take a five-minute break?
24        A    After I answer this.
25             No, I'm not aware of any report.

                                                                   186
 1             (A recess was taken.)
 2   BY MR. FINNER:
 3        Q    Are you aware of any claim that was made on
 4   the mortgage insurance of either the Indigo Street or
 5   Deep Purple property after the Chapter 11 plan was
 6   confirmed?
 7        A    Not that I'm aware of.
 8        Q    Okay.  And are you aware of any reports that
 9   were made to any outside entities regarding the interim
10   stipulation that we just discussed?
11        A    By outside parties who do you mean?
12        Q    Anybody that's not in-house at Wells Fargo
13   Home Mortgage.
14        A    Well, there would have been discussions
15   within the -- our attorneys.
16        Q    Well, they already knew about the
17   stipulation, didn't they?
18        A    Well, one would hope, but there would have
19   been discussion thereof, and that's what you were
20   asking.
21        Q    And that stipulation describes a motion to
22   value property; do you know if such a motion was ever
23   filed?
24        A    I believe one was.
25        Q    And what's your understanding of Wells

                                                                   187
 1   Fargo's role in having such a motion eventually be
 2   filed?
 3        A    Can you rephrase the question.
 4        Q    Did Wells Fargo instruct anybody to file a
 5   motion like that?
 6        A    I do not know.
 7        Q    You know that one was eventually filed?
 8        A    To my knowledge and belief, I believe one was
 9   eventually filed.
10        Q    I've marked Exhibit 28.  Have you ever seen
11   this document before?
12        A    No.
13        Q    Could you read it over and describe what your
14   understanding of it is.
15        A    It is an affidavit in support of the motion
16   for valuation of claim signed by a Patrick Casey.
17        Q    Does it express -- does this affidavit
18   express an opinion as to the value of any real estate
19   collateral for Wells Fargo loans?
20        A    Yes.
21        Q    And what collateral is that and what value is
22   expressed?
23        A    It is stating that the collateral is the
24   Deep Purple address that we have discussed, and the
25   Indigo Avenue address.  It is stating that it believes

                                                                   188
 1   the current fair market values for those properties are
 2   as follows:  Deep Purple at 145,000.00, and the
 3   Indigo Avenue at 72,000.00.
 4        Q    Are those valuations for those two pieces of
 5   collateral consistent with anything else that you've
 6   seen regarding either of those properties?
 7        A    I have nothing to reference those to.
 8        Q    Do you know Mr. Casey?
 9        A    No, I do not.
10        Q    Have you ever communicated with him?
11        A    No.
12        Q    Do you know if he is a real estate appraiser?
13        A    I have no idea.
14        Q    Do you know if he is a licensed real estate
15   broker?
16        A    I have no idea.
17        Q    Do you know if he has any other particular
18   expertise with respect to the valuation of real estate
19   collateral?
20        A    I do not know.
21        Q    And do you know how he determined the figures
22   that he put forth in his affidavit?
23        A    I do not.
24        Q    Have you had occasion, in connection with
25   litigation files in your department, to employ the

                                                                   189
 1   services of real estate appraisers?
 2        A    Yes.
 3        Q    Have you made the decision whether to do so?
 4        A    Personally, no.
 5        Q    Are there any criteria that come into play
 6   when a real estate appraiser is hired?
 7        A    Not to my knowledge.
 8        Q    Have you ever hired a lawyer to determine how
 9   much a piece of real estate collateral is worth?
10        A    Personally, no.
11        Q    And have you ever hired a real estate
12   appraiser to file a Proof of Claim or a motion for your
13   company in court?
14        A    Not to my knowledge.
15        Q    That's good.
16             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 29 was marked for
17   identification.)
18   BY MR. FINNER:
19        Q    Have you ever seen Exhibit No. 29 before?
20        A    No.
21        Q    Do you know what it means?
22        A    It is withdrawing the motion to value a
23   claim.
24        Q    Is that the motion to value collateral that
25   we've discussed in connection with the last two

                                                                   190
 1   exhibits?
 2        A    The second exhibit is asking to allow a
 3   withdrawal of the prior exhibit.
 4        Q    Did Wells Fargo instruct its attorneys to
 5   withdraw that motion?
 6        A    I don't know.
 7        Q    Do you know why that motion was withdrawn?
 8        A    No.
 9        Q    Do you know -- do you know whether Wells
10   Fargo, when it entered into the interim stipulation,
11   intended for the payments that were expressed in that
12   stipulation to be made indefinitely, no matter what
13   happened to the motion to value?
14        A    I do not know.
15             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 30 was marked for
16   identification.)
17   BY MR. FINNER:
18        Q    Have you ever seen Exhibit No. 30 before?
19        A    It appears to be the subpoena that I received
20   via e-mail in regards to showing up here today.
21        Q    And on the third page of this subpoena there
22   is a schedule of documents?
23        A    Uh-huh.
24        Q    Can you describe what Wells Fargo has done in
25   an effort to comply with this subpoena?

                                                                   191
 1        A    We have provided counsel with as many
 2   documents as we could obtain in the time frame given,
 3   to include payment history and loan notes and letters
 4   and communications with the borrowers, copies of
 5   origination files on both loans.  And there are certain
 6   things that are requested within this that Wells Fargo
 7   either does not have access to or does not provide due
 8   to trade confidentialities.
 9        Q    What documents doesn't Wells Fargo provide
10   due to trade confidentialities?
11        A    I believe that you asked for certain master
12   pooling servicing agreements, master servicing
13   agreements, subservicing agreements.  Some of that
14   stuff, we -- if we are forced by the courts to comply
15   with providing that information, we request that a
16   protective order be in place prior to providing it.
17        Q    Can you explain what sort of confidentiality
18   is at stake with respect to the production of the
19   pooling and servicing agreements related to the two
20   loans that we're discussing today?
21        A    Well, considering they are confidential, no.
22        Q    Please explain.
23        A    Well, not even I have access to those
24   agreements; so, therefore, I have no idea how their
25   confidentiality reflects to these loans.

                                                                   192
 1        Q    When a master servicing agreement to which
 2   Wells Fargo is a party is filed with the Securities and
 3   Exchange Commission as part of either a 10-K or an 8-K
 4   report, does Wells Fargo request that the Securities
 5   and Exchange Commission treat that document as
 6   confidential?
 7        A    I do not know.
 8        Q    How many servicing agreements have you
 9   personally been involved with withholding from the
10   borrower whose loan was at issue?
11        A    I don't withhold anything.  It is not
12   required by Wells to have certain documents in place
13   prior to providing.
14        Q    Well, the reason I ask is because we've
15   discussed a lot of documents today that you just have
16   no idea where they are and you think maybe they can be
17   produced but you're not sure, but when we talk about
18   servicing agreements, which have not been produced,
19   you're giving a more expansive discussion of reasons
20   that you would not produce the servicing agreement
21   without admitting that you've ever actually seen one or
22   there's one in place and --
23        A    Well, I do not know if one is in place
24   because they are confidential documents.
25        Q    Why are they confidential?

                                                                   193
 1        A    If I had access to them to review them in
 2   order to know why they are confidential, then they
 3   would not be confidential anymore.
 4        Q    Who in your office has access to the
 5   servicing agreement that governs the loan that's
 6   secured by the Deep Purple address?
 7        A    I do not know.
 8        Q    Who in your office would know who in your
 9   office has access to the servicing agreement for the
10   loan that's secured by the Deep Purple property?
11        A    I don't know.
12        Q    And I think you've previously testified that
13   you have no way of knowing who the owners of either of
14   these loans are; is that correct?
15        A    Not that there is no way to determine that;
16   as I have previously stated, you determine that through
17   the notes, the assignments thereof, through pooling a
18   code from our systems and getting it through servicing
19   acquisitions in order to try to determine that.  I said
20   as of this date I do not have knowledge thereof.
21        Q    Let's just look at the Deep Purple loan.  If
22   Wells Fargo is not the owner of that loan, what
23   standing does it have to file a Proof of Claim in
24   Mr. Mortgagor's bankruptcy or collect any funds out of the
25   confirmed plan of that bankruptcy?

                                                                   194
 1        A    I'm sorry.  I don't know that I understand
 2   your question.
 3        Q    Wells Fargo filed a Proof of Claim that said
 4   Mr. Mortgagor owes it $82,000 and change.
 5        A    Okay.
 6        Q    But I think your testimony is that you don't
 7   know that Wells Fargo is actually the holder of the
 8   note on that loan?
 9        A    I do not have personal knowledge thereof.
10        Q    And my question --
11        A    That does not mean that it is not true or
12   untrue.
13        Q    Okay.  How would you determine whether Wells
14   Fargo is the owner of the loan or just the servicer?
15        A    I have already gone through how the
16   determination would be determined if we are or are not
17   the owner.
18        Q    If Wells Fargo isn't the owner but is only
19   the servicer, what documents are going to give it the
20   right to come into bankruptcy court and claim money?
21        A    Our servicing contracts.
22        Q    And, those servicing contracts, you don't
23   know if they exist; you're not allowed to look at them;
24   you don't know who knows if they exist?  I just want to
25   make sure we understand your testimony.

                                                                   195
 1        A    I don't know what else you are asking of me.
 2        Q    Do you have any reason to believe that there
 3   is a servicing contract in place with respect to the
 4   Deep Purple loan?
 5        A    Yes.
 6        Q    What reason is that?
 7        A    Because it is on our Fidelity system and --
 8   with all the balances and -- loan balances, principal,
 9   interest, all of this stuff has to come from somewhere.
10        Q    And only a loan that is serviced by Wells
11   Fargo is going to be on the Fidelity system, as opposed
12   to a loan that is owned by Wells Fargo as the note
13   holder?
14        A    No.  Both will be on our system.  That's why
15   I am unaware of whether we own this or we are servicing
16   this.
17        Q    Okay.  And if you don't own either the Rustic
18   Pines or the Indigo Street loan, you're not personally
19   aware of any document that gives Wells Fargo the right
20   to go to bankruptcy court and claim money; is that a
21   fair summary of your testimony?
22        A    Is it not within my personal knowledge.
23        Q    And you don't know who would know that?
24        A    It is not within my personal knowledge.
25        Q    Okay.  I'm glad you don't know it all.  I

                                                                   196
 1   tried to and my wife told me to cut it out.
 2        A    Yeah.  My husband already told me to forget
 3   it.
 4             (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 31 was marked for
 5   identification.)
 6   BY MR. FINNER:
 7        Q    And have you seen Exhibit No. 31 before?
 8        A    Yes.
 9        Q    And is Paragraph 9 of Exhibit No. 31 an
10   accurate summary of Wells Fargo's position with regard
11   to the production of servicing agreements?
12        A    Yes.
13             MR. FINNER:  No more questions.  Thanks for
14        coming out to Florida on a 97-degree day.
15             MR. DI SPIGNA:  We'll read and we'll take a
16        copy.
17        (The witness did not waive reading and signing
18   and the deposition was concluded at 5:00 p.m.)
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