0001
 1                       CAUSE NO. 874676
 2   UNIFUND CCR PARTNERS,     ) IN THE COUNTY CIVIL COURT
                               )
 3            Plaintiff,       )
                               )
 4   v.                        ) AT LAW NO. 1
                               )
 5   GERIANNE M. HUFFMAN,      )
                               )
 6            Defendant.       ) OF HARRIS COUNTY, TEXAS
 7        **********************************************
 8                      ORAL DEPOSITION OF
 9                          JOSEPH LUTZ
10                         APRIL 26, 2007
11        **********************************************
12                 ORAL DEPOSITION of JOSEPH LUTZ, produced
13   as a witness at the instance of the Defendant, and duly
14   sworn, was taken in the above-styled and numbered cause
15   on the 26th of April, 2007, from 9:13 a.m. to
16   11:11 a.m., before Peggy A. Hebert, CSR in and for the
17   State of Texas, reported by machine shorthand, at the
18   offices of Hull & Associates, P.C., 6200 Savoy,
19   Suite 440, Houston, Texas  77036, pursuant to the Texas
20   Rules of Civil Procedure and the provisions stated on
21   the record or attached hereto.
22   
23   
24   
25   
0002
 1                   A P P E A R A N C E S
 2   FOR THE PLAINTIFF:
 3       Ms. Stephanie P. Briggs
         HULL & ASSOCIATES, P.C.
 4       6200 Savoy, Suite 440
         Houston, Texas  77036
 5       Tel: 713.952.1700   Fax: 713.952.8375
 6   FOR THE DEFENDANT:
 7       Mr. Richard Tomlinson
         THE LAW OFFICE OF RICHARD TOMLINSON
 8       One Greenway Plaza, Suite 325
         Houston, Texas  77046
 9       Tel: 713.627.2100   Fax: 713.627.2101
10   
11   
12   
13   
14   
15   
16   
17   
18   
19   
20   
21   
22   
23   
24   
25   
0003
 1                         I N D E X
 2                                                       PAGE
 3   Appearances.........................................   2
 4   JOSEPH LUTZ
 5        Examination by Mr. Tomlinson...................   4
 6        Examination by Ms. Briggs......................  68
 7        Further Examination by Mr. Tomlinson...........  73
 8        Further Examination by Ms. Briggs..............  75
 9   Signature and Changes...............................  77
10   Reporter's Certificate..............................  79
11                         EXHIBITS
12   NUMBER & DESCRIPTION                                PAGE
13       Exhibit 1.......................................   4
              Affidavit
14   
         Exhibit 2.......................................  66
15            Bill of Sale, Assignment and Assumption
              Agreement
16   
         Exhibit 3.......................................  66
17            Citibank Card Agreement
18       Exhibit 4.......................................  66
              Business Records Affidavit
19   
20   
21   
22   
23   
24   
25   
0004
 1                 (Exhibit 1 marked)
 2                       JOSEPH LUTZ,
 3   having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
 4                       EXAMINATION
 5   BY MR. TOMLINSON:
 6       Q.   Could you state your name for the record,
 7   please?
 8       A.   Joseph Lutz, L-u-t-z.
 9       Q.   I think I introduced myself before, but let me
10   tell you again.  I'm Richard Tomlinson.  I represent the
11   defendant in a particular case where Unifund CCR
12   Partners is suing Gerianne M. Huffman in County Court at
13   Law No. 1 here in Harris County.  As I understand it,
14   you've taken a number of depositions before; correct?
15       A.   Yes.
16       Q.   Do you know about how many times?
17       A.   Over 50.
18       Q.   Do you testify in trials as well?
19       A.   Yes.
20       Q.   And has this -- all of this prior experience in
21   testifying both in depositions and at trials, has this
22   all been for Unifund?
23       A.   Yes.
24       Q.   How many times do you think you've testified at
25   trial?
0005
 1       A.   In the past year, probably 80.
 2       Q.   Have you ever done so in Texas?
 3       A.   Yes.
 4       Q.   Where have you testified?
 5       A.   Here and in Dallas.  Well, in McKinney, Texas,
 6   also.  I can't remember what county that is.
 7                 Cullen County.
 8       Q.   Collin, I think.
 9       A.   Collin.
10       Q.   Let me just go over a few things.  This is
11   probably not new to you.  If I ask you a question that
12   you don't understand, please tell me you don't
13   understand the question.
14       A.   I will.
15       Q.   Okay.  You know, I don't pretend to always ask
16   the clearest questions in the world, so feel free to
17   tell me if you don't understand me.  One other big
18   thing -- it's more important for her than it is for you
19   and me -- is that only one of us can be talking at one
20   time.
21       A.   I understand.
22       Q.   What I will try to do is wait until you're
23   finished with an answer before I ask a new question, and
24   I would just ask you to do much the same thing, which is
25   wait until I'm finished with a question before you
0006
 1   answer.
 2       A.   Yes.
 3       Q.   Okay.  What's your address, your residential
 4   address, sir?
 5       A.   You want my home address?
 6       Q.   Just generally, where you do live?
 7       A.   I live in Cincinnati, Ohio.
 8       Q.   And is your business address in Ohio as well?
 9       A.   Yes, it is.
10       Q.   Can you give me your business address?
11       A.   100625 Techwoods Circle, Cincinnati, Ohio
12   451 -- 45242.
13       Q.   And your employer is Unifund CCR Partners?
14       A.   Yes.  That's correct.
15       Q.   Is there more than one Unifund entity?  Is
16   there more than one corporate entity that goes by the
17   name of Unifund?
18       A.   I believe there are.  I'm not sure how many,
19   but Unifund is a partnership.
20       Q.   All right.  And the particular one you work for
21   is Unifund CCR Partners?
22       A.   That's correct.
23       Q.   Do you know what the CCR stands for?
24       A.   I don't.
25       Q.   And what's your position with Unifund?
0007
 1       A.   I am an account manager records specialist.
 2       Q.   How long have you served in that role with
 3   Unifund?
 4       A.   Since August of -- August 2005.  August 1 of
 5   2005.
 6       Q.   What does it mean to be an account manager?
 7       A.   They gave me a title.
 8       Q.   Tell me what are the duties of your job as an
 9   account manager records specialist?
10       A.   I'm trying to say this, sum it up as best I
11   can.  I have been hired because of my banking experience
12   to represent Unifund when we go to litigation with our
13   various attorneys throughout the United States.  My
14   responsibility, when we decide to litigate through our
15   lawyers a debtor's account, is to obtain and get all the
16   information I possibly can regarding that account, make
17   sure that I have it and make sure that our attorneys
18   have that information, and then be prepared to testify
19   on their behalf.
20       Q.   Are you the only individual at Unifund who
21   serves this role?
22       A.   Yes.
23       Q.   Do you have any sense for how much, what the
24   value of the accounts are that Unifund holds at any one
25   time?
0008
 1       A.   No.
 2       Q.   Is it in the hundreds of millions?
 3       A.   I believe so.
 4       Q.   Do you think it's possible it might exceed a
 5   billion dollars?
 6       A.   I don't know.
 7       Q.   Do you know, approximately, how many lawsuits,
 8   for example, last year that Unifund brought?
 9       A.   No.
10       Q.   Is it in the thousands, though?
11       A.   I don't know.
12       Q.   Let me show you what's been marked as Exhibit
13   No. 1, and it's just held together by a paper clip just
14   so that we can reach the documents.  Tell me if you're
15   familiar with that document?
16       A.   I signed it.
17       Q.   That's your signature on the second page?
18       A.   Yes, it is.
19       Q.   And is this an affidavit that you signed in
20   this particular case involving Ms. Huffman?
21       A.   Yes.
22       Q.   And does it appear to be a true copy with
23   attachments?
24       A.   Yes.
25       Q.   Okay.  And let me add -- I knew I was leaving
0009
 1   something out -- how you answer is entirely up to you,
 2   but for her purposes she needs to have words.
 3       A.   I understand.  I apologize.
 4       Q.   No.  That's all right.  It's more of a problem
 5   with witnesses who are from --
 6       A.   Sure.
 7       Q.   -- Houston than it is for people from
 8   Cincinnati, in my experience.
 9                 Do you ordinarily sign these in every case
10   that is filed or only in certain cases that are filed in
11   court on behalf of Unifund?
12       A.   I sign an awful lot of affidavits.  When I sign
13   them, I -- because I obviously can't review every bit of
14   the information on it, I verify them by looking at the
15   account number and the amount due and note that I have
16   available all other -- all the other pertinent
17   information should I be called upon to testify, as I am
18   with you today.
19       Q.   That's what you do before signing?
20       A.   Yes.
21       Q.   Okay.  Do you happen to know if your affidavits
22   are used with most of the lawsuits when they're
23   initially filed, or are your affidavits only used when,
24   for example, there's going to be a motion for summary
25   judgment?
0010
 1       A.   I don't know.
 2       Q.   That hasn't -- that's not something that's come
 3   up when you've been asked to sign these affidavits?
 4       A.   That's correct.
 5       Q.   So back to what you just said, before you
 6   signed this particular affidavit, as I understand what
 7   you said, you would verify the account number and the
 8   amount due?
 9       A.   That's correct.
10       Q.   Okay.  Who would attach the documents to the
11   affidavit after you signed it?
12       A.   We return the affidavit to the law firm who is
13   representing us, and then they request the information
14   which is pertinent to the case.
15       Q.   So let me see if I have this right.  After you
16   sign this affidavit, which is two pages long -- it's the
17   first two pages of Exhibit 1?
18       A.   Yes.
19       Q.   That is delivered to the law firm that will be
20   handling the lawsuit; correct?
21       A.   That's correct.
22       Q.   And then the documents that are attached to
23   this affidavit would be attached by somebody at that
24   particular law firm?
25       A.   That's correct.
0011
 1       Q.   So in the case of this particular affidavit
 2   marked as Exhibit No. 1, the documents that are attached
 3   to this affidavit would have been attached by somebody
 4   here at Hull & Associates?
 5                 MS. BRIGGS:  I'm going to object as to
 6   form.
 7       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  Go ahead and answer.
 8                 MS. BRIGGS:  I'm going to object as to the
 9   form of the question.  It's speculative.
10                 MR. TOMLINSON:  Let me just tell you.
11   You're allowed to object, but you're not allowed to have
12   a speaking objection.  And if I have a question, I'll
13   ask you.  But once the objection is finished, I have a
14   right to ask for his answer unless you're going to
15   instruct him not to answer.
16                 MS. BRIGGS:  You can answer.
17                 THE WITNESS:  I'm sorry?
18                 MS. BRIGGS:  You can answer.
19                 THE WITNESS:  I can answer?
20       A.   Please repeat the question?
21       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  I have the same problem.
22                 MR. TOMLINSON:  Could you repeat it for
23   us?
24                 (Requested portion was read)
25       A.   They could be obtained by going through our web
0012
 1   site to obtain these documents.
 2       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  I understand.  But my
 3   question is, you did not attach the documents to your
 4   affidavit?  That's correct?
 5       A.   I do not attach the documents.
 6       Q.   And any documents that would have been attached
 7   to your affidavit, that would have been done by somebody
 8   at this law firm that filed this lawsuit on behalf of
 9   Unifund?
10       A.   That's correct.  However, I will at the same
11   time be obtaining the same documents when they're
12   requested.
13       Q.   I understand that, but --
14       A.   Yeah.
15       Q.   -- my question to you, though, is, after you
16   sign this affidavit, you do not attach documents to it?
17       A.   That's correct.
18       Q.   You send this affidavit, in this case Exhibit
19   No. 1, to Hull & Associates?
20       A.   That's correct.
21       Q.   And then they, somebody here at this firm, will
22   then attach the documents to that exhibit?
23       A.   That's correct.
24       Q.   And they obtain those documents by pulling them
25   off the Unifund web site?
0013
 1       A.   That's correct.
 2       Q.   And I assume that there's some sort of security
 3   functions that only people associated with Unifund can
 4   reach that part of the web site?
 5       A.   That's correct.
 6       Q.   And before you sign this affidavit, the only
 7   thing that you do is to verify the account number and
 8   the amount due?
 9       A.   That's correct.
10       Q.   Can you give me a sense in any one month about
11   how many of these affidavits you sign, or week or day?
12                 MS. BRIGGS:  Objection to form.
13       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  Go ahead and answer.
14       A.   700.
15       Q.   700 a month?
16       A.   Yes.
17       Q.   Assuming there's 21 to 22 days, working days
18   per month, how many days are you at your office as
19   opposed to being on the road?
20       A.   Frequently I work Saturdays.  I'd say I'm in
21   the office three and a half days a week.  I come in on
22   Saturdays frequently to sign affidavits and do that.
23       Q.   So if it's about three and a half days per
24   week, I think that's about 15 days per month that you're
25   available to be at the office and sign affidavits?
0014
 1       A.   That sounds about right.
 2       Q.   So you might sign between 45 to 50 of these per
 3   day that you're at the office?
 4       A.   I'd say that's a reasonable sum, yes, sir.
 5       Q.   Reasonable estimate, anyway?
 6       A.   Yes.
 7       Q.   Let me go through this, and I'm going to take
 8   this paper clip off.  What we have with Exhibit No. 1 on
 9   the top is a two-page affidavit signed by you; correct?
10       A.   Yes.
11       Q.   And then next there is something called an
12   "Affidavit of Indebtedness" signed by Kim Kenney?
13       A.   Yes.
14       Q.   She's also with Unifund; correct?
15       A.   That's correct.  Her office is right around the
16   corner from mine.
17       Q.   All right.  The next document on Exhibit No. 1
18   is something called a "Unifund Statement"?
19       A.   That's correct.  That is never sent to the
20   debtor.  That's sent to the law firm only.
21       Q.   All right.  And then with this particular
22   affidavit there's an additional 13 pages of documents
23   that are marked Citi Platinum Select Card?
24       A.   That's correct.
25       Q.   And these purport to be computer copies of
0015
 1   monthly statements from Citibank?
 2       A.   That's correct.
 3       Q.   Okay.  But they're not copies of the originals?
 4   They're more or less a computer version of them;
 5   correct?
 6       A.   They are the same as the copy -- as the
 7   statement which was mailed to your debtor.
 8       Q.   All right.  Let me --
 9       A.   They're electronically prepared under the same
10   method as the statement which goes to the debtor.
11       Q.   Have you ever worked for Citibank?
12       A.   No, but I visited --
13       Q.   No, no, no.  I'm just asking.  I'll ask more
14   questions.  Have you ever worked for Citibank?
15       A.   No.
16       Q.   All right.  Back to these documents.  The top
17   two pages of Exhibit 1 are the affidavit that's signed
18   by you.  That's generated by Unifund; correct?
19       A.   The affidavit itself?
20       Q.   Yes.
21       A.   That was generated by Hull and sent to us for
22   my signature.
23       Q.   All right.  So basically you get different form
24   affidavits from different law firms?
25       A.   That's correct.
0016
 1       Q.   All right.  Do you know how many of these you
 2   sign per month for Hull & Associates?
 3       A.   No.
 4       Q.   No sense of that?  It's just you get so many?
 5       A.   No, I just don't know.  I mean, I get --
 6   usually, when I get back to the office tomorrow, I'll
 7   have maybe 100 affidavits, and there might be seven from
 8   Hull and ten from Regent and you go on down the line,
 9   and I have no idea --
10       Q.   All across the country?
11       A.   That's correct.
12       Q.   Okay.  But -- all right.  Let me see if I have
13   this right, then.  With regard to Exhibit No. 1, the top
14   two pages is an affidavit for you to sign.  That's
15   generated by the lawyer for Unifund --
16       A.   That's correct.
17       Q.   -- who will be in the field?
18       A.   That's correct.  I'm sorry.
19       Q.   Not in Cincinnati?
20       A.   That's right.
21       Q.   All right.  But then the next page, which is
22   the affidavit of indebtedness, this is actually
23   generated by Unifund; correct?
24       A.   That's correct.
25       Q.   And then the next page, which is called the
0017
 1   "Unifund Statement," marked on this one Exhibit A, this
 2   is also generated by Unifund?
 3       A.   That's correct.
 4       Q.   Then the last 13 pages here that have the --
 5   that are denominated Citi Platinum Select Card, these
 6   would have been generated by Citibank.  Am I right?
 7       A.   That's correct.
 8       Q.   These 13 pages, were they mailed or e-mailed or
 9   faxed to Unifund by the bank?
10       A.   I request them, and they are electronically
11   sent to me.
12       Q.   Okay.  So the transmission from Citibank to
13   Unifund is an electronic transmission?
14       A.   That's correct.
15       Q.   Okay.  Who specifically at Unifund arranged for
16   the transmission of these documents to Unifund from
17   Citibank?
18       A.   When we purchase a block of charged off credit
19   card debt, we are given access to all the accounts in
20   that block by Citibank.  When we have an account number
21   that we decide to pursue and turn over to attorneys, we
22   then request, and I could be -- there's three of us.
23   Kim Kenney, I, and Jeff Schaeffer, I would assume, can
24   request these documents.  And I don't know for sure
25   about Jeff because he's just a head of our entire
0018
 1   department.  I assume he would have the same access that
 2   I have.
 3       Q.   And how do you go about requesting these
 4   documents from Citibank?
 5       A.   I go to my computer.  I go to a section, which,
 6   of the 200 employees that we have, there's only four of
 7   us that have access to this section.  It's a password
 8   protected session that says Unifund Media.  I enter the
 9   account number, which would be this Visa account, and it
10   flashes a page back saying what information is
11   available, whether it's a bank affidavit, whether it's a
12   credit card application, whether it's statements, and
13   then we check what information we want, how many
14   statements we want, anything of that nature.  And if
15   we're lucky, we get information back within two weeks.
16       Q.   So, basically, you find out what it is and you
17   request what you want, and then it comes a couple of
18   weeks later?
19       A.   That's correct.
20       Q.   And is this like an e-mail that's directed to
21   somebody in records at Citibank?
22       A.   Yes.
23       Q.   Okay.  In this particular example with
24   Exhibit No. 1, you have these 13 pages that apparently
25   came from Citibank?
0019
 1       A.   Yes.
 2       Q.   Are these the only documents that were
 3   available at Citibank in this case?
 4       A.   I couldn't find anymore that were.
 5       Q.   All right.  And what that answer tells me is
 6   that when you check to see with this account number what
 7   they had available, these 13 pages were all that you
 8   could find?
 9       A.   Yes.
10       Q.   Okay.  I just wanted to be clear about that.
11   Okay.  Your affidavit, I'm just going to try to go
12   through it with you.  And probably -- I don't know if
13   you can see any better than I can, but it says early in
14   this that you are the designated agent of Unifund in
15   this case; correct?
16       A.   Yes.
17       Q.   And why would it be you in this case instead of
18   somebody else?
19       A.   Because that's primarily the position that I
20   was hired to fulfill.
21       Q.   Okay.  Does Ms. Kenney or Mr. Schaeffer ever
22   take on this role?
23       A.   They have.
24       Q.   Are they currently?
25       A.   Not -- only if -- the only reason they would is
0020
 1   if I was so booked up that I wasn't available.  And we
 2   have two other people in our department who are what we
 3   refer to as legal liaison, and they sometimes do what
 4   I'm doing.  But, again, it's depends on my availability.
 5       Q.   Now, the affidavit also says that you've
 6   reviewed the file in this matter.  Do you see that?
 7       A.   Yes.
 8       Q.   Okay.  You remember what it says?
 9       A.   Yes.
10       Q.   Based on what you told me already, I assume
11   this means that you were not reviewing a physical file?
12       A.   That is correct.
13       Q.   You were reviewing an electronic file?
14       A.   That's correct.
15       Q.   And, in fact, what you were reviewing was a
16   listing of what documents were available with Citibank?
17       A.   That's correct.
18       Q.   And, as I understand it, the only documents you
19   could find listed with Citibank are these 13 pages?
20       A.   That's correct.
21       Q.   Now, the affidavit says you gained personal
22   knowledge from a review of this file; correct?
23       A.   Yes.
24       Q.   And, as we talked about before, what you've
25   done is reviewed what documents were available -- let me
0021
 1   ask you about this.  As I understand it, when -- at the
 2   time you signed this affidavit, you're not actually
 3   pulling the documents.  Am I right?
 4       A.   That is correct.
 5       Q.   And, as I recall you saying, the only thing you
 6   actually look to is to verify the account number and the
 7   amount due before signing?
 8       A.   That's correct.
 9       Q.   And where do you go to confirm those two facts
10   before you sign?
11       A.   I have a spread sheet that has all the
12   affidavits that I'm to sign, and that spread sheet has
13   the name, the account number, and the amount owed.
14       Q.   Who prepares that spread sheet?
15       A.   Legal liaison.
16       Q.   And that's somebody else that works at Unifund?
17       A.   That's correct.
18       Q.   So before you sign, you've not actually
19   reviewed the documents in the electronic file at
20   Citibank?
21       A.   That's correct.
22       Q.   Let me see if I have -- again, let me make sure
23   I understand this.  Before you sign this, you have
24   not -- you did not review the electronic file of
25   Citibank; correct?
0022
 1       A.   That's correct.
 2       Q.   Okay.  If that's true, how can you say you had
 3   reviewed the file on this affidavit?
 4       A.   I have by now.
 5       Q.   I understand that.  But that's not the issue.
 6   Is that -- the question is, at the time you gave this
 7   affidavit, had you reviewed those documents?  And, as I
 8   understand from what you told me, you had not.  Isn't
 9   that right?
10       A.   That's correct.
11       Q.   This document, this affidavit marked as Exhibit
12   No. 1 also says that you have personal knowledge of the
13   books and records of plaintiff concerning this claim
14   against Gerianne Huffman; isn't that right?
15       A.   The records are those that are available.
16   That's correct.
17       Q.   I'm just -- let me tell you --
18       A.   Yes.
19       Q.   -- what I'm trying to do.  I'm going to ask you
20   about certain statements.  Just try to confirm that you
21   said it, and then I'm going to ask you about it.
22       A.   I see.
23       Q.   I don't mean to be obstreperous here, but you
24   can always tell me to stop being obstreperous and I will
25   do so.  Let me just be careful, though.  In this
0023
 1   affidavit it says you have personal knowledge of the
 2   books and records of plaintiff concerning this claim
 3   against Gerianne Huffman; isn't that right?
 4       A.   Yes.
 5       Q.   And the only records that even you are aware of
 6   right now are the records that are attached to this
 7   affidavit?
 8       A.   That's correct.
 9       Q.   There are no real books; correct?
10       A.   That's correct.
11       Q.   Okay.  And, as I understand it, at the time you
12   signed this affidavit, which would have been January 2nd
13   of 2007, you had not actually reviewed any of the
14   attached documents?
15       A.   That's correct.
16       Q.   Are you also the custodian of the records of
17   Unifund on Gerianne Huffman?
18       A.   I am one of the custodians.
19       Q.   Okay.  Who else is a custodian?
20       A.   We have a legal liaison department, and the
21   legal liaison department are the people who are
22   responsible for the day-to-day operation of housing,
23   obtaining, and providing all records.  I have the same
24   authority as far as a password authority to obtain and
25   review these records as they do.  Now, there are three
0024
 1   of them.
 2       Q.   Does that include Kim Kenney?
 3       A.   No, she's a media supervisor.
 4       Q.   All right.  That's a different job?
 5       A.   That's correct.
 6       Q.   What is a media supervisor?  I don't mean to
 7   be --
 8       A.   Oh, we have ten people that are responsible for
 9   obtaining information from all of the various companies
10   from whom we purchase the charged off debt.  They are
11   primarily responsible for getting all information that
12   could be obtained.  If our legal liaison is not able to
13   obtain something for some reason, they go to our media
14   department.  Media -- our media department is overall
15   responsible for relations between Citibank or Chase or
16   Wells Fargo or First USA or all of the banks from whom
17   we purchase charged off credit card debt, debt that
18   people decide they don't want to pay anymore.
19       Q.   But she's not responsible for pulling the
20   records of an account that's in litigation; correct?
21       A.   Who?
22       Q.   Kim Kenney.
23       A.   She could be.  I would go to her if I can't get
24   something as a last resort, so to speak.
25       Q.   But normally she wouldn't be in that process?
0025
 1       A.   That's correct.
 2       Q.   Okay.  And I'm just trying to confirm a few
 3   things.  You also say in this affidavit that the
 4   attached documents are kept in the regular course of
 5   business as permanent records of the company; correct?
 6       A.   Yes.
 7       Q.   That company refers to Unifund CCR Partners;
 8   correct?
 9       A.   Yes.
10       Q.   You then say, and I quote from this affidavit,
11   ". . . it was the regular course of business for an
12   employee with personal knowledge of the act, event, or
13   condition recorded to make the memorandum or record or
14   to transmit information thereof to be completed in such
15   attached memorandum or record . . ."  Correct?
16       A.   I don't understand what -- is it in here
17   someplace?
18       Q.   Yes, that's what I -- I was trying to quote
19   that, and I'll point to --
20       A.   Let me look at it, please.
21       Q.   It's in this last full paragraph on the first
22   page, and it's on the second line where it starts with
23   "it," and tell me if I've stated it correctly?
24       A.   It is the regular course of business for an
25   employee with personal knowledge.  Otherwise, I am that
0026
 1   employee.
 2       Q.   I was going to get to that.
 3       A.   Okay.
 4       Q.   What I just want to confirm is --
 5       A.   Yes.
 6       Q.   -- that I stated that language correctly --
 7       A.   Yes.
 8       Q.   -- that's in the affidavit?
 9                 All right.  And I was trying to identify
10   that reference to an employee.  An employee refers to
11   you as an employee of Unifund?
12       A.   That's correct.
13       Q.   Okay.  You do not have personal knowledge,
14   though, as to how Citibank actually generates the
15   records that are attached as 13 pages here, do you?
16       A.   I do.
17       Q.   Is your knowledge based on telephone
18   conversations with Citibank employees?
19       A.   No.
20       Q.   What is your knowledge based upon?
21       A.   A two-day visit with Citibank in their credit
22   card processing center in Kansas City.
23       Q.   When was this?
24       A.   Two months ago.
25       Q.   Two months ago would have been?
0027
 1       A.   April.  Let's see.  What month is this?
 2   February.
 3       Q.   In February?
 4       A.   Last of February.
 5       Q.   All right.  But at the time you signed this
 6   affidavit, which would have been in January 2007, what
 7   was the basis of your personal knowledge?
 8       A.   I have worked for banks since 1986.
 9       Q.   All right.  Now, let me --
10       A.   My banking experience involves credit cards.  I
11   worked for Wells Fargo for 12 years and retired from
12   Wells Fargo.
13       Q.   I apologize for interrupting.  Let me tell you
14   where I'm going, though.  At the time you signed this
15   affidavit in January of 2007, you relied upon, in terms
16   of your personal knowledge, your general knowledge of
17   the banking industry; correct?
18       A.   That's correct.
19       Q.   Was it based at all upon any specific knowledge
20   of Citibank?
21       A.   No, it was not.
22       Q.   So before you visited a Citibank facility in
23   February of this year, you could not say affirmatively
24   that you knew that Citibank actually followed what you
25   thought was general banking procedures with regard to
0028
 1   credit cards, could you?
 2       A.   I could not say that.  You're absolutely
 3   correct.
 4       Q.   Let me show you Kim Kenney's affidavit.  Do you
 5   happen to know how she was able to generate this
 6   information and sign it, or do you know?
 7                 MS. BRIGGS:  Objection.  Form.
 8       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  You can answer.
 9       A.   I do not know how Kim Kenney obtained that.
10       Q.   Okay.  Let me go back to your affidavit.  We
11   talked again before about that sentence in the last full
12   paragraph on page 1 of your affidavit where it said, ".
13   . . it was the regular course of business for an
14   employee with personal knowledge of the act, event, or
15   condition recorded to make the memorandum or record, or
16   to transmit information thereof to be completed in such
17   attached memorandum or record . . ."  This all relates,
18   with regard to the 13 pages from Citibank, to what
19   Citibank might have done; correct?
20       A.   Yes.
21       Q.   And at the time that you signed this affidavit,
22   you had no knowledge about what Citibank for sure did?
23                 MS. BRIGGS:  Objection.  Form.
24       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  Did you?
25       A.   No.
0029
 1       Q.   But you learned differently when you visited
 2   their facility in February?  You since learned something
 3   about their --
 4       A.   Yes.
 5       Q.   -- procedures?
 6       A.   That's correct.
 7       Q.   And was this based on what you were told by
 8   people at Citibank?
 9                 MS. BRIGGS:  Objection.  Leading.
10       A.   We were given a tour of the facility starting
11   with how the initial card was sent out, how -- what
12   happens when the merchant swipes the credit card, the
13   entire process up until -- which was almost all
14   electronic, including when the statement was mailed.
15       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  Okay.  Let me see if I have
16   this right, though.  When you visited this facility,
17   what you learned about the procedure, this is what
18   somebody at Citibank told you?
19       A.   They took us on a tour of each department.
20       Q.   I'm just trying to confirm something.  You went
21   on a tour, and they told you about the procedures of
22   Citibank?
23       A.   That's correct.
24       Q.   And this is what an employee of Citibank would
25   tell you?
0030
 1       A.   Yes, but we witnessed it.
 2       Q.   Okay.  Tell me about what did you witness?
 3       A.   We witnessed the process.  Again, it's almost
 4   all electronic, as you might realize.
 5       Q.   I mean, is there -- really, if it's mostly
 6   electronic, is there much to witness?  It's really
 7   you're relying upon what somebody tells you?
 8       A.   That's correct.  Yes.
 9       Q.   Okay.  Then the last part of this full
10   paragraph on page 1 says, ". . . and memorandum or
11   record was made at or near the time of the act, event,
12   or condition" -- I think it meant to say recorded or
13   indicated in said record or reasonably soon thereafter.
14   Do you see that?
15       A.   Yes.
16       Q.   Okay.  What does that mean?
17       A.   I don't know.
18       Q.   I had the same problem.  At the time you signed
19   this affidavit in January of this year, did you ever
20   actually verify the accuracy of these 13 pages, that
21   these were accurate records of Citibank?
22       A.   No.
23       Q.   I'm just trying to confirm my understanding.  I
24   appreciate that.  Have you done so to date?
25       A.   No.
0031
 1       Q.   To your knowledge, as of this date, has anybody
 2   at Unifund done that?
 3       A.   It's not necessary.
 4                 MS. BRIGGS:  Objection.  Form.
 5       A.   How is -- Citibank will never -- that cannot be
 6   a mistake.
 7       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  Okay.
 8       A.   If this happens, then we should get out of
 9   business completely because we deal with leading
10   financial institutions, and if they give us this
11   information, it can't be proven wrong.
12       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  Let me just pose some
13   questions.  I'm just trying to learn certain things.
14       A.   Yes.
15       Q.   And your lawyer is going to be free to ask you
16   questions now or later.
17       A.   I understand.
18       Q.   I understand that before you signed this
19   affidavit and through today, you have not verified the
20   accuracy of these 13 pages that have Citibank on them by
21   going and checking Citibank's own records; correct?
22       A.   Those are Citibank's own records.
23       Q.   That's not my question.  You're not answering
24   my question.  That's all I'm trying to do is get an
25   answer to my question.
0032
 1                 MR. TOMLINSON:  Can you restate that for
 2   me, please?
 3                 (Requested portion was read)
 4       A.   I have not.
 5       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  Okay.  And I want to move
 6   on.  To the best of your knowledge, no one at Unifund
 7   has verified the accuracy of these 13 pages from
 8   Citibank's records as of today?
 9                 MS. BRIGGS:  Objection.  Form.
10       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  You can answer.
11       A.   That's right.
12       Q.   Okay.  Looking at page 2 of your affidavit of
13   this Exhibit 1, you say that the memorandum or record
14   was made -- pardon me.  Pardon me.  You said, on page 2,
15   "That Plaintiff and Defendant entered into an
16   agreement . . ."  Correct?
17       A.   Yes.
18       Q.   Plaintiff is Unifund and defendant is Gerianne
19   Huffman in this case; correct?
20       A.   Yes.
21       Q.   Okay.  Are you saying Unifund had an agreement
22   with Ms. Huffman?
23       A.   Unifund now owns the account.
24       Q.   But Ms. Huffman never made an agreement with
25   Unifund, did she?
0033
 1       A.   No.
 2       Q.   They made an agreement -- if she made an
 3   agreement, she made it with another entity; correct?
 4       A.   That's correct.
 5       Q.   So technically that statement is not true, is
 6   it?
 7       A.   That's correct.
 8       Q.   In that same paragraph on page 2 of the
 9   affidavit it says, this agreement allowed, quote,
10   ". . . Defendant," Ms. Huffman, "to receive cash
11   advances and/or purchase goods and services at different
12   places which honored the credit card as issued by
13   Plaintiff."  Isn't that what it says?
14       A.   That's correct.
15       Q.   Now, that indicates Unifund issued a credit
16   card to Ms. Huffman; isn't that right?
17       A.   That's correct.
18       Q.   But that's not true, either?
19       A.   That's correct.
20       Q.   Did you ever have a problem with those
21   statements when you signed these affidavits?
22       A.   Not until right now.
23       Q.   Didn't you give a deposition up in Dallas about
24   a similar affidavit with the same kind of language when
25   the same questions were asked back in November?
0034
 1       A.   I don't remember.
 2                 MS. BRIGGS:  Objection.  Form.
 3       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  Now, you mention that
 4   there's an agreement, and, as I understand it, your
 5   position would be that she had an agreement initially
 6   with Citibank?
 7       A.   That's correct.
 8       Q.   As I understand your prior testimony, Unifund
 9   does not have a copy of the agreement or all the
10   amendments relating to that particular account; is that
11   correct?
12       A.   We have a copy of the credit card agreement.
13       Q.   Okay.  Do you have a copy of her signature on
14   the cardholder agreement?
15       A.   There's no such thing.  She used the credit
16   card.  Utilization of the credit card implies acceptance
17   of the agreement, which is a generic form, and you all
18   know that.
19       Q.   The only thing I want to say is, I'm not here
20   to answer questions.
21       A.   I understand that.
22       Q.   Okay.
23       A.   But I'm referring to the fact that that's
24   knowledge that you also have.
25       Q.   All right.  I don't necessarily have any
0035
 1   knowledge, and I don't think you can assume that.  But
 2   that's neither here nor there.  How do you know -- well,
 3   let me restate the question.  As I understand it, every
 4   bank that issues credit cards may have more than one
 5   credit card program; correct?
 6       A.   That's correct.
 7       Q.   So they have more than one agreement?
 8       A.   That's correct.
 9       Q.   Citibank may have a dozen?
10       A.   Fifty.
11       Q.   Fifty.  Even more?
12       A.   They have vanity agreement -- they have vanity
13   credit cards that they service.
14       Q.   The vanity cards, they don't -- they're not
15   necessarily different -- that different from one another
16   other than they have a name on it?
17       A.   University of Texas on it.
18       Q.   Right.
19       A.   Something.  That's correct.
20       Q.   But they still have a number of different plans
21   with different cardholder agreement terms?
22       A.   That's correct.
23       Q.   They have a number of them; correct?
24       A.   That's correct.
25       Q.   How do you know which one of these applies to
0036
 1   her account?
 2       A.   We have a computer program which identifies,
 3   according to other numbers of this account, which credit
 4   card agreement applies to a specific account.
 5       Q.   All right.  And is that information that's
 6   provided by Citibank?
 7       A.   We -- well, we design the program with the
 8   assistance of Citibank.
 9       Q.   And does this information also retain copies of
10   all amendments that have been applied unilaterally to
11   each of those types of agreements?
12       A.   I'm not sure.  I assume so, but I can't testify
13   for sure.
14       Q.   Okay.  In the second full paragraph on page 2
15   of your affidavit, which is marked as Exhibit No. 1, it
16   says, does it not, "That the attached account (numbered
17   4128004027239798) is the original true and correct
18   account or an exact duplicate thereof of the Defendant,
19   Gerianne M. Huffman, which has been maintained in files
20   under my supervision and control."  Isn't that right?
21       A.   Yes.  Uh-huh.
22       Q.   Okay.  What does the word "account" refer to?
23       A.   The account number.  That is the account which
24   was -- the credit card number is the account of the
25   person who quit paying their credit card debt.
0037
 1       Q.   Well, let me tell you what -- I'm confused by
 2   that.  I thought when you were referring to something
 3   being a true and correct original or duplicate that
 4   you're talking about documents.  Is that a fair
 5   statement?
 6       A.   Well, there are documents with this account,
 7   but if you are -- if you are pulling an account for
 8   Gerianne Huffman, you would want that account number in
 9   order to get to the entire account.
10       Q.   Let me tell you what I'm getting at, and you're
11   going to know more than I do, and I'm happy to admit
12   this.  Normally, when you ask -- when you state in
13   what's called a business records affidavit that the
14   attached something is a true and correct original or
15   duplicate, you're talking about pieces of paper, and
16   that's what I'm trying to get at.  Instead of saying
17   records, this sentence says account.  But I'm trying to
18   clarify.  Is the intention in that sentence to refer to
19   the 13 pages that are attached thereto?
20       A.   Yes.
21       Q.   That's all I was trying to get at.  And I know
22   it seems bizarre that I'm asking it, but I will tell you
23   that the use of the word "account," I thought, was
24   ambiguous.
25       A.   I guess so.  I hadn't thought of it.  When
0038
 1   somebody gives me an account number, I assume that we're
 2   referring to an account and all records therein
 3   pertaining to such.
 4       Q.   But when we're talking about what's a correct
 5   original or a correct duplicate, we're talking about
 6   pieces of paper, aren't we?
 7       A.   Yes.
 8       Q.   Okay.  And with regard to this particular
 9   account number in that sentence, you're referring to an
10   account number that was generated by Citibank, not by
11   Unifund; correct?
12       A.   That's correct.
13       Q.   And, as I understand it, the attached records
14   that have the words Citi on them, those 13 pages that
15   are attached to your affidavit, they were maintained
16   under your -- according to this affidavit, they were
17   maintained under your supervision and control?
18       A.   Yes.
19       Q.   But at the time you signed this affidavit, you
20   didn't even have -- you didn't even have access to them,
21   did you?
22                 MS. BRIGGS:  Objection.  Form.
23       A.   At the time I signed that affidavit, I had -- I
24   didn't know that I did, but I had supervision and
25   control because I had access to these, yes.
0039
 1       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  But clearly they were
 2   generated by a different entity, Citibank; correct?
 3       A.   That's correct.
 4       Q.   And at the time you signed this affidavit,
 5   those 13 pages or the information within them was not
 6   already in the possession of Unifund, was it?
 7                 MS. BRIGGS:  Objection.  Form.
 8       A.   I don't know.  I would say they actually were
 9   because we had sent the account to Hull.  So it was in
10   our possession, yes.
11       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  Well, but when you request
12   documents on a particular account number for litigation,
13   you're doing it -- you're directing that inquiry to
14   Citibank, as I understand it; is that correct?
15       A.   Yes.
16       Q.   Okay.  And all I'm trying to clarify is that at
17   the time you signed this affidavit, you certainly had
18   not made such a request?
19       A.   No.  That's correct.
20       Q.   And you don't know of anybody else at Unifund
21   who had done so either; right?
22                 MS. BRIGGS:  Objection.  Form.
23       A.   I don't know.  That's correct.
24       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  It also says in the third
25   paragraph on page 2 of Exhibit No. 1, doesn't it say,
0040
 1   "In accordance with the agreement, Defendant promised to
 2   pay Plaintiff for the account"?  Isn't that right?
 3       A.   Yes.
 4       Q.   Okay.  And that's not literally true, is it?
 5                 MS. BRIGGS:  Objection.  Form.
 6       A.   In terms of the agreement, any successor which
 7   is given by Citibank assumes the same rights as Citibank
 8   had.
 9       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  All right.  I understand
10   that.  But let me ask you this.  Ms. Huffman never made
11   an agreement with Unifund, did she?
12       A.   She made an agreement with Citibank, and that
13   agreement --
14       Q.   I understand it was assigned.  But my question
15   to you then is, she basically -- the only party she made
16   a promise to was to Citibank, if she made a promise to
17   anybody; correct?
18       A.   She promised to honor the agreement which she
19   made.
20       Q.   And I understand that.  But my point is that
21   she made that promise, if she made it to anybody, to
22   Citibank; correct?
23       A.   And their successors.
24       Q.   Well, is that in the -- does it say that
25   actually in the agreement?
0041
 1       A.   Yes, it does.
 2       Q.   Which, of course, although I requested, I have
 3   not received in this case.
 4       A.   I didn't know that you had requested same.
 5       Q.   Okay.  It also says in this affidavit -- it's
 6   the second sentence in the third full paragraph on this
 7   page 2.  You also state in your affidavit, "The
 8   Defendant has failed and continues to fail to make
 9   payments due on the account."  Correct?
10       A.   Yes.
11       Q.   What you know of your own personal knowledge
12   from reviewing Unifund's records, that she had not paid
13   Unifund; isn't that correct?
14       A.   She has not paid Unifund and she has not paid
15   Citibank.
16       Q.   But at the time you signed this affidavit, you
17   had not reviewed Citibank's records, had you?
18                 MS. BRIGGS:  Objection.  Leading.
19       A.   No.
20                 MR. TOMLINSON:  Just so I can state for
21   the record, he's an adverse witness, so I'm allowed to
22   ask leading questions, but you're free to object again
23   if you want.  Okay?
24                 MS. BRIGGS:  Okay.
25       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  So without reviewing the
0042
 1   records of Citibank, how would you know whether she's
 2   made payments to Citibank or not actually, of your own
 3   personal knowledge?
 4       A.   My own personal knowledge is that we do not get
 5   charged off credit card debt that has had any activity
 6   since the charge-off.
 7       Q.   And the problem with that is, that's an
 8   inference drawn from the fact that they purchased --
 9   that you have purchased this account.  Of your own
10   personal knowledge, of your own direct personal
11   knowledge, you do not know, if you've not reviewed
12   Citibank's records, whether she had made payments to
13   Citibank or not; isn't that right?
14       A.   Well, that was one of the questions I asked the
15   person in charge of the department, of the servicing
16   charge-off department at Citibank.  Do we ever get
17   anything where there has been activity after charge-off?
18   And he said absolutely not.
19       Q.   All right.  But at the time you signed this
20   affidavit, you had -- you stated that she had not made
21   payments.  Admittedly she had not made payments to
22   Unifund; correct?
23       A.   That's correct.
24       Q.   And you're stating as well, I assume from using
25   this language, that she had not made payments to
0043
 1   Citibank; correct?
 2       A.   That's correct.
 3       Q.   But you had not reviewed Citibank's records.
 4   Am I right?
 5       A.   I hadn't.
 6       Q.   Okay.  Looking at the next sentence in the
 7   third full paragraph on the second page of your
 8   affidavit marked as Exhibit No. 1, you say, do you not,
 9   that, "There is presently due" and -- ". . . due, owing
10   and unpaid by the Defendant, Gerianne M. Huffman, the
11   sum of $13,156.48, exclusive of interest, attorneys'
12   fees, and court costs."  Isn't that right?
13       A.   That's correct.
14       Q.   Are you saying this is the principal amount due
15   or not?
16       A.   The principal amount due when we purchased the
17   debt was $6,110.  The rest is interest.
18       Q.   Since the date of purchase?
19       A.   Since the date of charge-off.
20       Q.   And even of that $6,000 that you referred to as
21   principal, that may well include accrued interest, might
22   it not, that just hadn't been paid?
23       A.   It included late charges and over credit
24   limit --
25       Q.   As well as --
0044
 1       A.   -- and whatever interest that goes on each
 2   month on the credit card.
 3       Q.   That has not been paid?
 4       A.   That's correct.
 5       Q.   So this principal amount might include things
 6   that we normally, in a closed end transaction, would not
 7   think of as principal; correct?
 8       A.   I guess.
 9       Q.   Well, for example, if I purchased an automobile
10   and I agree to make payments over 60 months, I know that
11   a certain portion of my payment is going to interest --
12       A.   Principal and interest.
13       Q.   -- and some to principal?
14       A.   That's correct.  Yes.
15       Q.   And I know that whereas here we're not sure,
16   with this principal sum of 6,000, how much of that
17   reflects an unpaid portion?
18       A.   That's correct.  Yes.
19       Q.   For example, cash advances or purchases --
20       A.   Yes.
21       Q.   -- use of the card?
22       A.   Yeah.
23       Q.   Okay.  How do you -- how did you know at the
24   time you signed this affidavit that the sum of
25   $13,156.48 was correct?
0045
 1       A.   That was given as a figure that we said,
 2   Unifund said, was -- was owed.
 3       Q.   You relied upon that spread sheet somebody gave
 4   you?
 5       A.   Yes.  That's correct.
 6       Q.   And do you know how that spread sheet is
 7   actually prepared?
 8       A.   I haven't watched them prepare it.
 9       Q.   So you don't know exactly how --
10       A.   No.
11       Q.   -- they do it?
12                 Okay.  And just to be clear about this --
13   okay.  When you signed this affidavit marked as Exhibit
14   No. 1, was it complete in its entirety, or did you have
15   to fill in, like, the amount yourself?
16       A.   I filled in nothing.  This was prepared by
17   Hull, sent to us, and I signed it.
18       Q.   And just to be clear about this, you did not
19   review the entire payment history of Ms. Huffman before
20   you signed this affidavit?
21       A.   I did not.
22       Q.   You have never looked at her entire payment
23   history.  Am I right?
24       A.   Well, I have since.  I mean, I've looked at
25   what is available.
0046
 1       Q.   That's not my question.
 2       A.   I understand what you're saying.  No, I
 3   haven't.
 4       Q.   Okay.  Now, looking at the 13 pages that have a
 5   reference to Citi on them that are attached to
 6   Exhibit No. 1, is either the sum of $6,107.47 or
 7   $13,156.48 to be found on any of them?
 8       A.   I'm trying to see the sequence, if they have
 9   it.
10       Q.   I think they're in an order, but I don't
11   remember whether it's ascending or descending.
12       A.   I think they're in chronological order, yeah.
13                 No.
14       Q.   Okay.  I looked at the last record in there.  I
15   think the latest one is dated November 12th of 2002, and
16   I think it may be on the bottom.  And doesn't it reflect
17   a balance of $5,824.78?
18       A.   That's correct.
19       Q.   My understanding is that, with most credit card
20   accounts, they are subject to unilateral change by the
21   credit card issuer.  Is that a fair statement?
22       A.   I'm sorry?
23       Q.   Hopefully I can remember it.  It's my
24   understanding with most credit cards, that they are
25   subject to unilateral change by the credit card issuer;
0047
 1   isn't that right?
 2       A.   That's correct.
 3       Q.   And one of those unilateral changes that they
 4   can impose, the credit card issuer can impose, is a
 5   change in the interest rate?
 6       A.   That's correct.
 7       Q.   So if you don't have all the monthly
 8   statements, you don't know the interest rate that was
 9   imposed from month to month to month during the entire
10   time period of this account, do you?
11       A.   Generally speaking, down here it shows the
12   interest rate that was charged at specific times.
13       Q.   And doesn't it change from month to month?
14       A.   Depending on the reliability of the credit card
15   holder.
16       Q.   I understand that, but I'm just asking --
17       A.   Yeah.  Yes, it changes month to month.
18       Q.   And the problem here is we only have some of
19   those monthly statements?
20       A.   That's correct.
21       Q.   And they're not even in exact adjacent order to
22   one another; isn't that right?
23       A.   I guess, yes.
24       Q.   There are gaps between them?
25       A.   Yes.
0048
 1       Q.   So we don't have exact proof of what the
 2   interest rates were for the period -- the last -- during
 3   the entire period of her account; isn't that right?
 4                 MS. BRIGGS:  Objection.  Form.
 5       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  We don't know that?
 6       A.   That's correct.
 7       Q.   What you told me before about the Affidavit of
 8   Indebtedness signed by Ms. Kenney, you don't know how
 9   she came up with these numbers in here, do you?
10       A.   I don't.
11       Q.   Okay.  In the last sentence in the third full
12   paragraph on page 2 of your affidavit marked as Exhibit
13   No. 1, it reads, quote, ". . . this amount is just and
14   true, due and owing, and all just and lawful offsets,
15   payments and credits have been allowed."  Isn't that
16   right?
17       A.   Yes.
18       Q.   Okay.  How do you personally know this?
19       A.   I guess I have to take the word of people who
20   we pay and -- who are paid to perform these services.
21       Q.   And my question to you is, your only personal
22   knowledge before signing the affidavit had to do with
23   reviewing a spread sheet?
24       A.   That's correct.
25       Q.   That had only very basic information?
0049
 1       A.   That's correct.
 2       Q.   And it wouldn't have really told you whether or
 3   not all offsets and credits had been given; isn't that
 4   right?
 5       A.   No.  That's correct.
 6       Q.   And without an entire -- access to an entire
 7   payment history, you're not in a position to say of your
 8   own personal knowledge whether or not all offsets,
 9   payments, and credits have been allowed, are you?
10                 MS. BRIGGS:  Objection.  Form.
11       A.   Only due to our agreement with Citibank when we
12   purchased this block am I able to say that.  I'm aware
13   of what the terms of the agreement are, and that says
14   that we have a, quote, "clean debt," that everything has
15   been taken care of by Citibank, and there's no
16   subsequent payments or no dispute.  There has not
17   been -- nothing that would negate our purchase of that
18   specific account.
19       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  And the number given to it?
20       A.   That's correct.  Now, as you know, there's
21   thousands of accounts involved with that purchase.
22       Q.   The fourth page of Exhibit No. 1 is called a
23   Unifund statement.  You mentioned before that this was
24   never sent to the --
25       A.   The debtor.
0050
 1       Q.   -- consumer?
 2       A.   It's just sent to our law firm.
 3       Q.   Okay.  Is this the only piece of information
 4   that's sent to the law firm when they are preparing a
 5   lawsuit?
 6       A.   I doubt it.  I don't know exactly what's sent
 7   to the law firm.
 8       Q.   All right.  Now, when you sign this affidavit
 9   marked as Exhibit No. 1, this had been prepared by
10   Hull & Associates; correct?
11       A.   Yes.
12       Q.   And even seems to so indicate at the bottom --
13       A.   That's correct.
14       Q.   -- in the footer; correct?
15       A.   Uh-huh.  Yes.
16       Q.   I'm sorry.  She can't take an uh-huh.
17       A.   I agree, yes.
18       Q.   I'm sorry.  I apologize.
19                 Is this -- what is marked as Exhibit A on
20   the bottom of it, is this the only thing you know for
21   sure that goes to the law firm before these affidavits
22   are prepared?
23       A.   Yes.
24       Q.   Okay.  Do you happen to know why it says at the
25   bottom of this page marked as "Unifund Statement" in
0051
 1   Exhibit A, it says, "This communication is from a debt
 2   collector.  Federal laws requires us to inform you that
 3   this is an attempt to collect a debt and any information
 4   obtained will be used for that purpose"?
 5       A.   I don't -- I mean, that's standard for debt
 6   collectors, and we -- all I can tell you is that it is
 7   sent to our law firm.  We do not mail out those
 8   statements.
 9       Q.   Okay.  Is it typically added or attached to the
10   petition or complaint that's filed in court, to your
11   knowledge?
12       A.   I don't -- I've not seen it.
13       Q.   You have no idea?
14       A.   That's correct.
15       Q.   Okay.  That's fine.  Do you know when
16   Ms. Huffman's account started with Citibank?
17       A.   I have her account was opened 4-1 of 1998.
18       Q.   And how do you have that information?
19       A.   It was obtained from Citibank.
20       Q.   When?
21       A.   When I requested it.
22       Q.   When was that?
23       A.   When I determined that we were going to go to
24   litigation on this account.
25       Q.   Not at the time you signed the affidavit here
0052
 1   marked as Exhibit 1?
 2       A.   When we got this block of information, that was
 3   part of the information which was available when we got
 4   this block of charged off credit card debt.
 5       Q.   So is it for each account that's part of a pool
 6   of accounts that you purchased, you get a little screen
 7   or a portion of a screen that gives you some basic
 8   information about an account?
 9       A.   Yes.
10       Q.   And one of the bits of information on there is
11   the date the account was opened?
12       A.   That's correct.
13       Q.   Is that the only bit of information that's not
14   also on the Unifund statement?
15       A.   Well, this is information I have available.
16       Q.   I know.  I'm just trying to find out what else
17   might be on that computer screen as opposed to what's on
18   this Unifund statement?
19       A.   It's got the charge-off date, the last payment
20   date, the last activity date, account number, date of
21   birth, social security number.
22       Q.   Tell me what you show to be the charge-off
23   date?
24       A.   Charge-off date was 1-13-2003.
25       Q.   And that reflects that the account went into
0053
 1   default sometime within a 180-day period before that;
 2   isn't that right?
 3       A.   Yes.
 4       Q.   It could have gone into default sometime like
 5   in July of 2002, more likely than not?
 6       A.   I would say the last payment date was 11-4 of
 7   2002.
 8       Q.   But do we know if that last payment rendered
 9   her current?
10       A.   No.
11       Q.   My point is, is that for accounting purposes a
12   bank has to charge off an account six months or 180 days
13   after it goes into default?
14       A.   That's correct.
15       Q.   And even if you make a payment during that six
16   months or 180-day period, if that payment doesn't render
17   the account current again, the clock is still running?
18       A.   That's correct.
19       Q.   And they still have to do -- charge it off 180
20   days or six months after it initially went into default?
21       A.   You're correct.
22       Q.   Okay.  My point being is this account may well
23   have gone into default sometime in July of 2002 and
24   remained in that status even though there was a payment
25   in November of 2002?
0054
 1       A.   That's correct.
 2       Q.   We don't have the original, or you don't have
 3   access to the original cardholder application here, do
 4   you?
 5       A.   No.
 6       Q.   Those are typically destroyed after a couple of
 7   years, five years?
 8       A.   Yes, five years.
 9       Q.   I just wanted to make sure she can pick up what
10   you were saying.
11                 That would have been gone by 2003;
12   correct?
13       A.   Yes.
14       Q.   As I understand it, these 13 pages are the only
15   available Citibank documents on this account at this
16   time?
17       A.   Yes.
18       Q.   So there's obviously other bits of information
19   that were available at one time that are no longer
20   available?
21       A.   That's correct.
22       Q.   For example, other monthly statements?
23       A.   Yes.
24       Q.   In fact, there should be over 50 monthly
25   statements, and we only have access to 13; is that
0055
 1   correct?
 2       A.   Yes.
 3       Q.   Is this because Citibank destroys these records
 4   at some point?
 5       A.   I asked that question of Citibank.  Why are
 6   some not available?  And he said that due to all kinds
 7   of things that could occur, some cease to be available.
 8   There's -- something occurs in the computer system or
 9   something of that nature.  He was not as forthcoming as
10   I would have liked to have seen him.
11       Q.   You took it -- you took him to mean that he
12   said glitches might explain why you don't have all the
13   records?
14       A.   I took him to say that somebody screwed up.
15       Q.   Okay.  But this is a frequent phenomenon in
16   your experience in dealing with all banks is that you
17   don't get full records from them?
18       A.   That's correct.
19       Q.   In the case of Citibank, they wouldn't own up
20   to a document destruction policy or data destruction
21   policy; right?
22       A.   They did not.
23       Q.   Okay.  Except that you do know they only keep
24   the cardholder applications for five years?
25       A.   Yes.
0056
 1       Q.   Is that because they keep those physically or
 2   not?
 3       A.   I asked if they transfer them to microfiche,
 4   and he said no.
 5       Q.   Did you take that to mean they kept physical
 6   copies?
 7       A.   They had physical copies for five years, and
 8   that's a lot.
 9       Q.   In your dealings with other banks, did any of
10   these other banks own up to the fact that some of these
11   records get destroyed after charge-off or before?
12       A.   I would say that all of the banks are similar
13   to what has occurred here.  I've asked why sometimes
14   there's a lot of information available and sometimes
15   there isn't much available, and I've never gotten a good
16   answer.
17       Q.   You were never convinced with the answer that
18   you got?
19       A.   That's -- I guess.
20       Q.   Or the answer didn't sound compelling to you,
21   anyway?
22       A.   I agree with that.
23       Q.   Now, this account, claiming as value right now,
24   is around $13,000; correct?
25       A.   Yes.
0057
 1       Q.   Do you know how much that Unifund paid for this
 2   account?
 3       A.   I don't.
 4       Q.   And they typically don't purchase individual
 5   accounts; correct?
 6       A.   That's correct.
 7       Q.   They purchase it as part of a huge pool?
 8       A.   That's correct.
 9       Q.   If they bought some accounts from Citibank, how
10   many would be in this pool in one purchase?
11       A.   I don't know.
12       Q.   Thousands, correct, at least?  At least in the
13   thousands?
14                 MS. BRIGGS:  Objection.  Form.
15       A.   I don't know.
16       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  Okay.  In any one purchase,
17   though, they will purchase this debt at a significant
18   discount, would they not?
19       A.   I don't know.
20       Q.   No one has ever told you anything about that?
21       A.   I have never asked.
22                 MS. BRIGGS:  Objection.  Form.  The
23   question has been asked and answered.
24       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  I'm asking you something
25   different than what you answered.
0058
 1       A.   No, no one has ever told me.
 2       Q.   Okay.  Who would know about that at Unifund?
 3       A.   I don't know.
 4       Q.   Do you currently possess the contract terms
 5   that apply to Ms. Huffman?
 6       A.   I'm sorry?
 7       Q.   Do you currently possess the contract terms
 8   that apply to Ms. Huffman on this account?
 9       A.   The contract terms that apply to Ms. Huffman?
10       Q.   Do you possess them?  That's what I'm asking.
11       A.   The credit card agreement?
12       Q.   Yes, sir.
13       A.   Yes.
14       Q.   Okay.  And isn't there an arbitration provision
15   in that agreement?
16       A.   There is.
17       Q.   And doesn't it provide that if either party has
18   a dispute, it's supposed to go to the National
19   Arbitration Forum?
20       A.   Yes.
21       Q.   And why didn't Unifund go there on this
22   account?
23       A.   Did she ask for it?
24       Q.   No, I'm asking a question.  Why did Unifund not
25   go to the National Arbitration Forum?
0059
 1       A.   We own the account.  There's never been
 2   arbitration requested.
 3       Q.   No.  And I'm not asking whether she requested
 4   it.  I'm asking you why, if Unifund -- both parties are
 5   obligated to go to arbitration, why did Unifund decide
 6   not to arbitrate, if you know the answer?
 7       A.   No, I don't know the answer.
 8       Q.   Do you have a copy of the screen that shows
 9   basic information about her account with you?
10       A.   No.
11       Q.   I thought you were looking at a piece of paper?
12       A.   I'm looking at some information that I jotted
13   down just because I knew that you'd probably be asking
14   questions.
15       Q.   So you didn't print off the screen; right?
16       A.   No.
17                 MR. TOMLINSON:  You know, I would ask to
18   look at any documents that he used to prepare for this
19   deposition.
20                 THE WITNESS:  I'm not going --
21                 MS. BRIGGS:  You did not request that.
22                 MR. TOMLINSON:  I don't have to.  I'm
23   entitled to do it during a deposition.  If he brought it
24   with him and he's relying upon it, I have a right to
25   look at what he brought.
0060
 1                 MS. BRIGGS:  You didn't request it in a
 2   duces tecum.
 3       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  Are you going to tell me
 4   that you're not going to do it?
 5                 MR. TOMLINSON:  I'm just asking him.
 6       A.   I'm going to give you everything except my own
 7   personal notes, and I don't have to give you my own
 8   personal notes.
 9       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  You know, I think if you
10   bring them with you during a deposition, you do.
11                 MR. TOMLINSON:  And I'm just asking you if
12   you're going allow him to produce it or are you going to
13   instruct him not to do so?
14                 MS. BRIGGS:  I'm going to allow him to
15   produce it.
16                 MR. TOMLINSON:  Okay.
17       A.   I'm sorry?
18       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  I would ask you to produce
19   everything that you looked at to prepare for this
20   deposition.  And is it these documents right here plus
21   this?
22       A.   (Witness hands documents).
23       Q.   Okay.  Thank you.
24       A.   Are these yours or -- these are --
25       Q.   I think these are all part of this exhibit.
0061
 1       A.   Okay.
 2       Q.   Are these what are called -- the top three
 3   pages, what are they called?  What is this document
 4   called?
 5       A.   That's account information.
 6       Q.   Okay.  Is this just basically a printout of
 7   what's on your computer screen?
 8       A.   It's a printout, which I prepared.  I have a
 9   blank, and I fill in notes that I can obtain on that.
10       Q.   Well, it just looks like a form is why I'm
11   asking.
12       A.   Yeah, it is a form.
13       Q.   Okay.  And is this all information that you
14   obtained from -- well, let's --
15       A.   We obtained that from Citibank.
16       Q.   Everything in the top two-thirds --
17       A.   Yeah.
18       Q.   -- of the front page you get from Citibank?
19       A.   That's correct.
20       Q.   And when do you get this information?
21       A.   I got that when I learned I was going to have
22   to testify.
23       Q.   And do you know when Unifund gets it?  Is this
24   something -- is this information, the top two-thirds, is
25   this what's provided at the time of the purchase of the
0062
 1   account?
 2       A.   Yes, I would say so.  Yes.
 3       Q.   You don't know for sure?
 4       A.   No.
 5       Q.   Okay.  There's a reference here to -- on
 6   account information it says, Portfolio, CIT 0415.  Does
 7   that reference a purchase of a particular portfolio of
 8   accounts?
 9       A.   That's correct.
10       Q.   And then there's a number.  It says Contract,
11   3745.  What does that mean?
12       A.   I have no idea.
13       Q.   Under debtor information there's a reference
14   to -- it says, Status.  Then it says, colon, 10-15-2004,
15   colon, Legal Ready?
16       A.   I don't know what that means.
17       Q.   Okay.  And then beyond that it says, Asset
18   found, colon, home.  Does that mean the only asset you
19   know about is the residence?
20       A.   Yes.
21       Q.   On account information, it has merchant, and
22   this one says Citibank?
23       A.   Yes.
24       Q.   Then there's a reference to agency, which
25   apparently is a reference to Hull & Associates?
0063
 1       A.   I guess, yes.
 2       Q.   Okay.  There's a reference to balance
 3   purchased, remaining balance, interest rate, date
 4   opened, charge-off date, last purchase date, although
 5   that's open here, last payment date, Unifund last
 6   payment date, which is open here, last activity date,
 7   and accumulated interest and fees.  Do you have to input
 8   this information, or do you know?
 9       A.   It's generated.
10       Q.   Well, the reason I ask that, if there's a
11   reference here to merchant, it sounds like you get this
12   same information from every bank that you buy these
13   accounts from?
14       A.   Yes.
15       Q.   And did they input the information on this
16   form?
17       A.   Yes.
18       Q.   Okay.  It's not done by Unifund personnel?
19       A.   No.
20       Q.   To the best of your knowledge?
21       A.   To the best of my knowledge.  I think anything
22   else that I've given you is the same stuff you have.
23       Q.   Yeah, I'm just trying to confirm that.
24                 So you have -- when you prepared, you also
25   looked at the Unifund statement with regard to
0064
 1   Ms. Huffman?
 2       A.   That's correct.
 3       Q.   And, again, the 13 pages that came from
 4   Citibank that we talked about?
 5       A.   That's correct.
 6       Q.   Then there's a reference to a bill of sale,
 7   assignment, and assumption agreement?
 8       A.   That's correct.
 9       Q.   Now, this is a one-page document?
10       A.   That's correct.  There's a lot of pages.
11       Q.   This apparently is dated October 1 of 2004?
12       A.   That's correct.
13       Q.   That's not when you actually got this account,
14   is it?
15       A.   Yes.
16       Q.   So has Unifund actually had this account for
17   literally --
18       A.   Three years.
19       Q.   Three years?
20       A.   Uh-huh.
21       Q.   Okay.  And then in addition you had something
22   called a Citibank card agreement?
23       A.   That's correct.
24       Q.   And, to your knowledge, this is the applicable
25   contract terms for --
0065
 1       A.   That's correct.
 2       Q.   -- the account?  Is that a yes?
 3       A.   Yes.
 4                 I don't know what that is.
 5       Q.   This says "Business Records Affidavit," and
 6   it's for Gerianne M. Huffman, and it's also signed
 7   January 2nd of 2007.
 8       A.   Must be the same affidavit that I signed.
 9       Q.   It looks different.
10       A.   Yeah, it does look different, but it's the same
11   date.
12       Q.   Yeah.  Do you have an explanation for that?
13       A.   I have no idea.  I do know that in the process
14   of signing frequently I will get two affidavits on the
15   same account from Hull.
16       Q.   All right.  And you don't know why that would
17   be?
18       A.   No.
19                 MR. TOMLINSON:  Okay.  I would like to
20   have these copied and marked as exhibits, and we'll get
21   that done, and I'm pretty close to finished.
22                 MS. BRIGGS:  Okay.
23                 MR. TOMLINSON:  Can we take a break to do
24   that?
25                 MS. BRIGGS:  Sure.
0066
 1                 (Recess from 10:50 to 10:55)
 2                 MS. BRIGGS:  I want to object on the
 3   record that we were not noticed of the deposition being
 4   subpoena duces tecum.  However, we are going to provide
 5   these documents, but we never received a notice of that.
 6                 MR. TOMLINSON:  Want to mark these?  Two,
 7   three, and four is fine.
 8                 (Exhibits 2, 3, and 4 marked)
 9       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  Let me show you what's been
10   marked as Exhibit No. 2.  Is this a copy of the bill of
11   sale that we talked about before?
12       A.   Yes.
13       Q.   Okay.  And, to the best of your knowledge, this
14   is a true copy of the document that reflects sale of a
15   number of accounts, including Ms. Huffman's, from
16   Citibank to Unifund?
17       A.   Yes
18       Q.   Let me show you what's been marked as Exhibit
19   No. 3, and, to the best of your knowledge, this is a
20   copy of the Citibank card agreement terms that were
21   effective with regard to Ms. Huffman's account --
22       A.   Yes.
23       Q.   -- at some point in time?
24       A.   Yes.
25       Q.   Do we know for sure that this was the agreement
0067
 1   at the beginning of her account?
 2       A.   No.
 3       Q.   And as I read on the last page here, it has a
 4   copyright 2001.  So this was the card agreement terms as
 5   of 2001, but not necessarily in '98; correct?
 6       A.   That's correct.  However, any subsequent
 7   agreement supersedes the agreement that was initially in
 8   effect.
 9       Q.   That's true.  But as for her prior experience
10   from '98 to 2001, Exhibit No. 3 would not govern the
11   transaction at that time?
12       A.   That's correct.
13       Q.   Okay.  Looking at Exhibit No. 4, this is
14   another affidavit that you signed in January of 2007
15   regarding this same account; is that correct.
16       A.   Yes.
17       Q.   This Exhibit No. 4 is purely a business records
18   affidavit and doesn't have a lot of the other statements
19   from the other affidavit?
20       A.   That's correct.
21       Q.   Okay.  But, to your knowledge, this has not
22   been used in this case; correct?
23       A.   To my knowledge.
24                 MR. TOMLINSON:  All right.  I pass the
25   witness at this time.
0068
 1                       EXAMINATION
 2   BY MS. BRIGGS:
 3       Q.   What is your full name?
 4       A.   Joseph Lutz.
 5       Q.   And who is your employer?
 6       A.   Unifund CCR Partners.
 7       Q.   And what is your position there?
 8       A.   Account manager records specialist.
 9       Q.   Okay.  What does this include?  Well,
10   specifically, what are your duties?
11       A.   To acquire business records of various debtors
12   when we are attempting to litigate an account.
13       Q.   Okay.  Are you familiar with the documents in
14   this case?
15       A.   Yes, I am.
16       Q.   Okay.  And when I say "documents," specifically
17   I'm referring to the affidavit signed by you January
18   27th, Affidavit of Indebtedness, Unifund Statement, your
19   statement?
20       A.   Yes.
21       Q.   Are these records kept in the ordinary course
22   of business?
23       A.   Yes.
24       Q.   Explain to me the ordinary course and how you
25   know about -- explain to me exactly the ordinary course
0069
 1   of business in keeping the records?
 2       A.   We have access through electronic transfer with
 3   the various corporations from whom we purchase charged
 4   off credit card debt.  At the time we decide to litigate
 5   or proceed in a collection attempt, I have access to
 6   these accounts through utilization of the account number
 7   and my private access to the various corporations, which
 8   we -- for whom we -- from whom we have purchased
 9   charge-off credit card debt.
10       Q.   Okay.  And when you have the account number,
11   specifically, what can you reference?
12       A.   I reference -- when I have the account number,
13   I have a web site called Unifund Media, which I can
14   access and pull up that specific account if it's in our
15   possession.  I can pull up that specific account number,
16   if we have actually purchased that account, and it shows
17   a list of things that might be available, and I will
18   request at that time that they be provided for me, if it
19   is available, whether it's an application, a bank
20   affidavit, statements, anything of that nature, and they
21   will let me know what is available, and then I order
22   those statements or those documents.
23       Q.   So if you order the statements, where do the
24   statements come from?
25       A.   Electronically transferred, in this case from
0070
 1   Citibank.
 2       Q.   So Unifund is relying upon the accuracy of
 3   these statements when they purchase the debt?
 4       A.   That's correct.
 5                 MR. TOMLINSON:  Objection.  Form.
 6       A.   That's correct.
 7                 MR. TOMLINSON:  Stand by my objection.
 8       Q.   (By Ms. Briggs)  Is it the ordinary course of
 9   business of Unifund, for an employee of Unifund with
10   knowledge of the account or event recorded to make the
11   record or to transmit information to be included in such
12   record?
13                 MR. TOMLINSON:  Objection.  Form.
14       A.   I didn't quite understand what your question
15   is.
16       Q.   (By Ms. Briggs)  Is it the normal -- is it the
17   ordinary course of business for Unifund or for an
18   employee of Unifund with the knowledge of the account to
19   make the -- okay.  I'll go somewhere else.
20                 So are these documents the exact
21   duplicates of the original?
22                 MR. TOMLINSON:  Objection.  Objection.
23   Form.
24       A.   Do I answer this?
25       Q.   (By Ms. Briggs)  You can answer.
0071
 1       A.   They are electronically reproduced copies of
 2   the original statements or documents.
 3       Q.   How are they electronically reproduced?
 4       A.   When we request them, the same document is
 5   transferred to us as was transferred to someone else.
 6   It's all done electronically.  From the time that credit
 7   card is swiped when it gets to Citibank or whatever
 8   servicer it is, it's always done electronically.
 9   There's no record of -- there's no pieces of paper
10   sitting around.  It's all in the computer.  When you ask
11   for it, that computer generates that document.
12       Q.   So these statements attached to the affidavit
13   are the same statements that Ms. Gerianne Huffman would
14   receive?
15       A.   Yes.
16                 MR. TOMLINSON:  Objection.  Form.
17       A.   Yes.
18       Q.   (By Ms. Briggs)  Citibank generates statements
19   and sends them to Unifund?
20                 MR. TOMLINSON:  Objection.  Form.
21       Q.   (By Ms. Briggs)  Does Citibank generate
22   statements and send them to Unifund?
23       A.   Yes.
24                 MR. TOMLINSON:  Objection.  Form.
25       Q.   (By Ms. Briggs)  In your opinion, who is
0072
 1   responsible for this debt?
 2                 MR. TOMLINSON:  Objection.  Form.
 3       A.   I'm sorry.  I didn't --
 4       Q.   (By Ms. Briggs)  In your opinion, who is
 5   responsible for this debt?
 6       A.   The debt?  Ms. Hoffman -- Huffman.
 7       Q.   And, specifically, what is the full name of the
 8   person you think is responsible?
 9       A.   Gerianne M. Huffman.
10       Q.   And why does Unifund or yourself hold Gerianne
11   Huffman responsible for the debt?
12       A.   Because it is her account.
13       Q.   Has she made payments on this account?
14       A.   Yes.
15                 MR. TOMLINSON:  Objection.  Form.
16       Q.   (By Ms. Briggs)  Before filing this suit, did
17   Ms. Huffman object to the billing?
18                 MR. TOMLINSON:  Objection.  Form.
19       A.   No.
20       Q.   (By Ms. Briggs)  Before signing the affidavit,
21   do you review the electronic file?
22                 MR. TOMLINSON:  Objection.  Form.
23       Q.   (By Ms. Briggs)  I'm sorry.  Before reviewing
24   the -- before signing the affidavit, what do you review?
25       A.   The only thing that I review when I sign the
0073
 1   affidavit, I make sure that the account number is
 2   correct, the name of the debtor is correct, and the
 3   amount owed agrees with the amount of our records.
 4                 MS. BRIGGS:  Okay.  I have nothing
 5   further.  That's it.
 6                    FURTHER EXAMINATION
 7   BY MR. TOMLINSON:
 8       Q.   Over my objection you stated that Ms. Huffman
 9   never made any objection to the billing; correct?
10       A.   That's correct.
11       Q.   You have no personal knowledge of that, though,
12   do you?
13                 MS. BRIGGS:  Objection.  Form.
14       A.   I know my personal knowledge is that we would
15   not have received this account as part of our purchase
16   had there been any unresolved dispute.
17       Q.   (By Mr. Tomlinson)  All right.  Now, that's
18   part of an agreement between Citibank and Unifund;
19   correct?
20       A.   That's correct.
21       Q.   And that's because they're obligated under a
22   warranty to give you certain kinds of accounts?
23       A.   That's correct.
24       Q.   And it's not unknown for merchants to not
25   actually provide what they're required to provide; isn't
0074
 1   that correct?
 2       A.   Merchants?
 3       Q.   If the party sells you an account and they
 4   promise you that it's going to have certain conditions
 5   associated with it --
 6       A.   That's right.  I see.
 7       Q.   -- it's not unknown for that party to sell you
 8   something that actually didn't comply with what they
 9   promised; isn't that right?
10       A.   I guess so.
11       Q.   So you can't be sure merely because of an
12   agreement that somebody is actually giving you an
13   account --
14       A.   No, I can't.
15       Q.   -- that's clean?
16       A.   No.
17       Q.   Merely because there's an agreement, that
18   doesn't tell you that in fact this account is clean;
19   right?
20       A.   That's correct.
21       Q.   Over my objection, you also stated that the
22   electronic copies of the monthly statements, which are
23   attached to Exhibit No. 1 as the 13 pages with the
24   reference to Citi, that they are identical to the same
25   statements received by defendant; correct?
0075
 1       A.   Yes.
 2       Q.   But, again, you have no direct personal
 3   knowledge that that's true, do you?
 4       A.   No.
 5                 MR. TOMLINSON:  I pass the witness.
 6                 MS. BRIGGS:  Okay.  I have a little bit,
 7   more questions.
 8                    FURTHER EXAMINATION
 9   BY MS. BRIGGS:
10       Q.   Okay.  I'm going to refer to the affidavit
11   dated -- that the title of it just says Affidavit, and
12   it states in the second paragraph, ". . . the affiant
13   has reviewed the file in this matter and upon review of
14   the file has personal knowledge of the facts set forth
15   in this affidavit and is not disqualified from making
16   this affidavit or giving testimony herein."  You have --
17   have you reviewed the file?
18       A.   I have.
19       Q.   Okay.  So that statement is accurate?  In your
20   opinion, is this statement accurate?
21       A.   At the time the affidavit was signed, that is
22   not 100 percent accurate.
23       Q.   Did you review the file?
24       A.   I have subsequently.
25       Q.   Did you review the account number?
0076
 1       A.   Yes.
 2       Q.   Okay.  Did you review the account number, the
 3   account amount before signing the affidavit?
 4       A.   Yes.
 5                 MS. BRIGGS:  Okay.  That's all.
 6                 MR. TOMLINSON:  I pass the witness.
 7                 MS. BRIGGS:  That's it.
 8                 (Proceedings concluded at 11:11 a.m.;
 9                 Exhibits 1, 2, 3 and 4 are attached)
10   
11   
12   
13   
14   
15   
16   
17   
18   
19   
20   
21   
22   
23   
24   
25   
0077
 1                    CHANGES AND SIGNATURE
 2   WITNESS NAME: JOSEPH LUTZ   DATE OF DEPOSITION: 4.26.07
 3   PAGE  LINE           CHANGE             REASON
 4   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
 5   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
 6   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
 7   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
 8   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
 9   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
10   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
11   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
12   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
13   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
14   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
15   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
16   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
17   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
18   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
19   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
20   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
21   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
22   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
23   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
24   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
25   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
0078
 1                   CHANGES AND SIGNATURE
 2   PAGE  LINE            CHANGE                REASON
 3   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
 4   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
 5   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
 6   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
 7   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
 8   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
 9   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
10   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
11                 I, JOSEPH LUTZ, have read the foregoing
12   deposition and hereby affix my signature that same is
13   true and correct, except as noted above.
14                 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
                         JOSEPH LUTZ
15   
     THE STATE OF TEXAS  )
16                       )
     COUNTY  OF  HARRIS  )
17   
                   Before me, _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _, on this day
18   personally appeared JOSEPH LUTZ, known to me (or proved
     to me under oath or through _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _)
19   (description of identity card or other document) to be
     the person whose name is subscribed to the foregoing
20   instrument and acknowledged to me that they executed the
     same for the purposes and consideration therein
21   expressed.
                   Given under my hand and seal of office
22   this _ _ _ _ day of _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _, 2007.
23   
24                 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
                   Notary Public in and for
25                 the State of _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
                   My Commission Expires: _ _ _
0079
 1                     CAUSE NO. 874676
 2   UNIFUND CCR PARTNERS,     ) IN THE COUNTY CIVIL COURT
                               )
 3            Plaintiff,       )
                               )
 4   v.                        ) AT LAW NO. 1
                               )
 5   GERIANNE M. HUFFMAN,      )
                               )
 6            Defendant.       ) OF HARRIS COUNTY, TEXAS
 7                  REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION
                   DEPOSITION OF JOSEPH LUTZ
 8                       APRIL 26, 2007
 9                  I, Peggy A. Hebert  Certified Shorthand
10   Reporter in and for the State of Texas, hereby certify
11   to the following:
12                 That the witness JOSEPH LUTZ, was duly
13   sworn by the officer and that the transcript of the oral
14   deposition is a true record of the testimony given by
15   the witness;
16                 That the deposition transcript was
17   submitted on _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _, 2007, to the witness
18   or to the attorney for the witness for examination,
19   signature and return to me by _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _, 2007;
20                 That the amount of time used by each party
21   at the deposition is as follows:
22                 Mr. Tomlinson - 1 Hour, 42 Minutes,
23                 Ms. Briggs  -  9 Minutes;
24                 That pursuant to information given to the
25   deposition officer at the time said testimony was taken,
0080
 1   the following includes counsel for all parties of
 2   record:
 3                 Ms. Stephanie P. Briggs, Attorney for
 4   Plaintiff,
 5                 Mr. Richard Tomlinson, Attorney for
 6   Defendant;
 7                 I further certify that I am neither
 8   Counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the
 9   parties or attorneys in the action in which this
10   proceeding was taken, and further that I am not
11   financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of
12   the action.
13                 Further certification requirements
14   pursuant to Rule 203 of TRCP will be certified to after
15   they have occurred.
16                 Certified to by me this 15th day of
17   May, 2007.
18   
19                  _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
                    Peggy A. Hebert, Texas CSR No. 1937
20                  Expiration Date:  12-31-2008
                    Firm Registration No. 62
21                  4545 Post Oak Place, Suite 350
                    Houston, Texas  77027
22   
23      FURTHER CERTIFICATION PURSUANT TO RULE 203 TRCP
24                 The original deposition was _ _ _/was
25   not _ _ _ returned to the deposition officer on
0081
 1   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _, 2007.
 2                 If returned, the attached Changes and
 3   Signature page contains any changes and the reasons
 4   therefor;
 5                 If returned, the original deposition was
 6   delivered to Mr. Richard Tomlinson, Custodial Attorney;
 7                 That $_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _  is the deposition
 8   officer's charges to the Defendant, Bar No. 20123500,
 9   for preparing the original deposition transcript and any
10   copies of exhibits;
11                 That the deposition was delivered in
12   accordance with Rule 203.3, and that a copy of this
13   certificate was served on all parties shown herein and
14   filed with the Clerk.
15                 Certified to by me this _ _ _ _ _ of
16   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _, 2007.
17   
18                 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
                   Peggy A. Hebert, Texas CSR No. 1937
19                 Expiration Date:  12-31-2008
                   Firm Registration No. 62
20                 4545 Post Oak Place, Suite 350
                   Houston, Texas  77027
21                 713.626.2629
22   
23   
24   
25