1 1 IN THE UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT 2 FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS 3 DALLAS DIVISION 4 IN RE: ) 5 ) SCOTT HAMMER ) 06-30569-13-SGJ 6 ) CHAPTER 13 _______________________________ ) 7 ) _______________ SCOTT HAMMER ) 7 ) PLAINTIFF, ) 9 ) Adversary vs. ) 18 ) #07-03087 CHASE HOME FINANCE, LLC, ) 11 ) Defendant. ) 12 ) 13 14 ****************************************************** 15 ORAL DEPOSITION OF 16 DEBORAH BAKER 17 July 27th, 2007 18 ****************************************************** 19 ANSWERS AND DEPOSITION of DEBORAH BAKER, 20 taken at the instance of the Plaintiff, on the 27th day 21 of July AD 2007 in the above styled and numbered cause 22 at the offices of Quilling, Selander, Cummiskey & 23 Lownds, 2001 Bryan Street, Suite 1800 in Dallas, Dallas 24 County, Texas, before David B. Jackson, RDR, a 25 Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 2 1 Texas, pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure 2 and the provisions stated on the record. 3 4 A P P E A R A N C E S 5 6 APPEARING FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 7 LAW OFFICES OF MICHAEL D. GORMAN 8 BY: Mr. Michael D. Gorman 14275 Midway Road, Suite 220 9 Addison, Texas 75001 10 and 11 LAW OFFICE OF BILLY D. PRICE, P.C. BY: Mr. Billy D. Price 12 5489 Blair Road Suite 425 13 Dallas, Texas 75231 14 APPEARING FOR THE DEFENDANT: 15 QUILLING, SELANDER, CUMMISKEY & LOWNDS, LLC BY: Mr. Lance Lewis 16 2001 Bryan Street, Suite 1800 Dallas, Texas 75201 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 3 10:18:26 1 (Deposition commenced at 10:18.) 10:18:26 2 THE REPORTER: Do y'all want to state any 10:18:28 3 agreements on the record? Pursuant to the rules? 10:18:30 4 MR. LEWIS: Proceed pursuant to the rules 10:18:37 5 is fine with me. 10:18:37 6 MR. PRICE: Fine with me too. 10:18:37 7 DEBORAH BAKER 10:18:37 8 was duly sworn and testified under oath as follows: 10:18:37 9 EXAMINATION 10:18:47 10 BY MR. PRICE: 10:18:47 11 Q. Ms. Baker, would you state your name for the 10:18:49 12 record, please? 10:18:49 13 A. Deborah Baker. 10:18:51 14 Q. And, Ms. Baker, where do you live? 10:18:53 15 A. In Houston, Texas. 10:18:55 16 Q. Do you have a Texas drivers license? 10:18:57 17 A. Yes, sir. 10:18:58 18 Q. And what is that number? 10:19:00 19 A. I don't know. 10:19:02 20 Q. Do you have it with you? 10:19:03 21 A. Yes, I do. It's 16428453. 10:19:35 22 Q. Thank you, ma'am. Ms. Baker, where are you 10:19:38 23 employed? 10:19:38 24 A. I work for Chase Home Finance, LLC. 10:19:43 25 Q. In a previous life was Chase Home Finance, LLC 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 4 10:19:48 1 also referred to as Chase Manhattan Mortgage? 10:19:52 2 MR. LEWIS: I object to the form. 10:19:58 3 A. It was Chase Manhattan Mortgage Corporation. 10:20:01 4 Q. (BY MR. PRICE) Is Chase Home Finance, LLC the 10:20:06 5 owner of the note that we're here in question about? 10:20:09 6 Or were they? 10:20:09 7 A. I believe that Fannie Mae was the investor on 10:20:21 8 one of the loans. And I'm not certain on the home 10:20:26 9 equity loan. 10:20:27 10 Q. How long have you been employed by Chase? 10:20:30 11 A. Since June 30th, 1997. 10:20:32 12 Q. Where is your office with Chase? 10:20:35 13 A. My office when I am in town is in my home. 10:20:44 14 Q. Is the corporate office that you work out of 10:20:47 15 in Columbus, Ohio? 10:20:49 16 A. Yes, sir. 10:20:50 17 Q. And do you visit Columbus, Ohio on a regular 10:20:55 18 basis? 10:20:55 19 A. I visit approximately three or four times a 10:21:01 20 year. 10:21:01 21 Q. Ms. Baker, have you ever given your deposition 10:21:04 22 before? 10:21:04 23 A. Yes, sir, I have. 10:21:04 24 Q. About how many times? 10:21:06 25 A. Between 100 and 150 times. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 5 10:21:10 1 Q. And so you're familiar with how a deposition 10:21:13 2 works; is that correct? 10:21:14 3 A. Yes, sir. 10:21:15 4 Q. If I ask you a question that you don't know 10:21:18 5 the answer to would you please ask me to repeat it? 10:21:20 6 A. Yes, sir. 10:21:21 7 Q. And can I assume that if you answer a question 10:21:24 8 I ask, that you understood it? 10:21:25 9 A. Yes, sir. 10:21:26 10 Q. And just for the record, do you have an 10:21:31 11 attorney representing you here today? 10:21:33 12 MR. LEWIS: I object to the form of the 10:21:34 13 question. 10:21:34 14 A. Yes. Yes, sir. 10:21:36 15 Q. (BY MR. PRICE) Thank you, ma'am. What is 10:21:41 16 your level of education, Ms. Baker? 10:21:44 17 A. High school. 10:21:46 18 Q. What is your position with Chase? 10:21:48 19 A. Assistant vice president. 10:21:55 20 Q. How long have you held that position with 10:21:56 21 Chase? 10:21:57 22 A. Since January 1st, 2005. 10:22:05 23 Q. What was your position with Chase before that 10:22:07 24 date? 10:22:07 25 A. I had several positions. Do you want me to go 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 6 10:22:15 1 and -- 10:22:15 2 Q. If you will just list for me the one directly 10:22:19 3 preceding your current position, that will be fine. 10:22:21 4 A. I was actually a Fannie Mae foreclosure 10:22:27 5 supervisor. 10:22:30 6 Q. Would you describe for the Court what your 10:22:31 7 duties are for Chase at this time? 10:22:33 8 A. I review loan files and work with our 10:22:43 9 attorneys in -- wherever they are, California, New 10:22:50 10 Jersey, Monroe and Florida, in order to get loans and 10:22:54 11 litigation resolved. 10:22:56 12 Q. Okay. And before today's deposition did you 10:23:00 13 have an opportunity to review any documents concerning 10:23:03 14 the case we're here for today? 10:23:05 15 A. Yes, sir. I did. 10:23:06 16 Q. Would you describe to the Court what documents 10:23:09 17 you reviewed for your deposition today? 10:23:11 18 A. Yes, sir. I might miss a couple, but I will 10:23:16 19 do my best. 10:23:17 20 I reviewed the loan history, the payoff, 10:23:23 21 the tax disbursement, the mortgage and the notes on 10:23:28 22 both loans, the payoff statements for both loans, the 10:23:44 23 pleadings and the answers regarding the lawsuit. 10:23:52 24 I believe that's it. 10:23:54 25 Q. Thank you, ma'am. Did anyone assist you in 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 7 10:23:59 1 reviewing these documents? 10:24:04 2 A. My attorney and I spoke, and I went through 10:24:12 3 the documents myself. 10:24:19 4 Q. Would it be a fair statement to say, 10:24:24 5 Ms. Baker, that you are very familiar with documents 10:24:27 6 concerning loans for Chase? 10:24:29 7 MR. LEWIS: I object to the form. It's 10:24:30 8 over broad. 10:24:34 9 A. What type of documents, sir? 10:24:37 10 Q. (BY MR. PRICE) Well, the loan documents in 10:24:38 11 this case, the transaction history, the payoff, the 10:24:41 12 proof of claims, any other documents that you have in 10:24:44 13 front of you that I have listed as Exhibits 1 through 10:24:49 14 9, would it be a fair statement to say that you are 10:24:54 15 familiar with those types of documents? 10:24:57 16 A. It would be a fair statement to say that I'm 10:25:04 17 familiar with the documents. However, Chase doesn't 10:25:06 18 produce the proof of claims. 10:25:08 19 Q. Okay. Thank you, ma'am. 10:25:18 20 I want to turn to the exhibits that I 10:25:22 21 gave you, Ms. Baker, and I want you to look at the 10:25:27 22 document that I have identified as document 1. And can 10:25:32 23 you tell me what that is? 10:25:34 24 A. Yes, sir. This is the loan history for the -- 10:25:39 25 the first loan. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 8 10:25:40 1 Q. Okay. So -- 10:25:41 2 A. The first lien. 10:25:43 3 Q. Would it be all right if we called this the 10:25:45 4 big loan? 10:25:46 5 A. Sure. 10:25:46 6 Q. Do you have any objection to that? 10:25:47 7 A. No, sir. 10:25:48 8 Q. And on this big loan, Ms. Baker, is this 10:25:52 9 document that we have in front of us, was that produced 10:25:55 10 by Chase? 10:25:55 11 A. Yes, sir. 10:25:57 12 Q. Is this a document that Chase normally 10:25:59 13 produces in cases or just for litigation? 10:26:05 14 MR. LEWIS: I object to the form. 10:26:07 15 A. No, sir. We -- we do this on a regular basis. 10:26:17 16 Q. (BY MR. PRICE) Now, you will notice that the 10:26:19 17 first entry on the document that we have is for 10:26:30 18 12/31/02; is that correct? 10:26:31 19 A. Yes, sir. 10:26:35 20 Q. And the bankruptcy case that we're here today 10:26:38 21 in conjunction with the adversary file was filed on 10:26:43 22 2/10 of '06? 10:26:45 23 A. Yes, sir. 10:26:47 24 Q. So if you will turn to page 3 of that 10:26:55 25 document. It's notated in your -- the document before 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 9 10:27:02 1 you that that was indeed correct. The case was filed 10:27:06 2 in 06-30569. And it's notated that that was done on 10:27:12 3 2/10 of '06; is that correct? 10:27:14 4 A. Yes, sir. 10:27:19 5 Q. And if you will go across the spreadsheet it 10:27:25 6 shows that on that date the principal balance owed on 10:27:29 7 the note was $241,622.34; is that correct? 10:27:38 8 A. Yes, sir. 10:27:40 9 Q. And it shows that on that date there was not a 10:27:43 10 balance in the escrow account; is that correct? 10:27:49 11 A. That's correct. 10:27:54 12 Q. Okay. And it shows that there was a balance 10:27:59 13 on that date of 926.03 in late charge; is that correct? 10:28:10 14 A. Yes, sir. 10:28:12 15 Q. And then finally on that line under fee 10:28:16 16 balance it shows that there was a total owed of 10:28:22 17 $900.74; is that correct? 10:28:24 18 A. Yes, sir. 10:28:29 19 Q. And if we go down the page just about five or 10:28:36 20 six lines there is a description in the far left-hand 10:28:42 21 column that says, "fee assessment." Do you see that? 10:28:45 22 A. Yes. 10:28:50 23 Q. For April '05? 10:28:51 24 A. For April '05? 10:28:53 25 Q. Where it says, "fee assessment" and then 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 10 10:28:54 1 paid-to-date column, April '05. And then it looks like 10:28:58 2 that the transaction date on that fee assessment was 10:29:01 3 March 3rd of '06. 10:29:03 4 A. Yes, sir. 10:29:05 5 Q. And would you describe to the Court what that 10:29:08 6 fee assessment is? 10:29:09 7 A. Well, I believe that, without seeing a bill, 10:29:15 8 but I believe that that was for filing a proof of 10:29:22 9 claim. 10:29:22 10 Q. And is the amount listed there under 10:29:25 11 transaction amount $125.00? 10:29:27 12 A. Yes, sir. 10:29:28 13 Q. Is that a normal amount charged for reviewing 10:29:32 14 a proof of claim? 10:29:34 15 A. For filing a proof of claim. 10:29:36 16 Q. I'm sorry, for filing a proof of claim? 10:29:38 17 A. Yes, sir. 10:29:39 18 Q. And if you will go across where that $125.00 10:29:46 19 ends up at it's not put into escrow, correct? 10:29:50 20 A. No, sir. 10:29:51 21 Q. It's put into the fee balance raising the fee 10:29:58 22 balance from 974 to 1,025.74; is that correct? 10:30:03 23 A. Yes, sir. 10:30:04 24 Q. Okay. And then there's -- a couple of lines 10:30:11 25 down there's another fee assessment. And it looks to 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 11 10:30:16 1 be for March 27th of '06. Do you see that one? 10:30:21 2 A. Yes, sir. 10:30:23 3 Q. And that balance shows to be 420.87; is that 10:30:23 4 correct? 10:30:28 5 A. Yes, sir. 10:30:30 6 Q. Do you know what that fee assessment was for? 10:30:35 7 A. No, sir, I don't. 10:30:37 8 Q. Just to clarify, that was also not put into 10:30:41 9 the escrow balance; is that correct? 10:30:43 10 A. That's correct. 10:30:44 11 Q. And it was put into the fee balance; is that 10:30:44 12 right? 10:30:48 13 A. That's correct. 10:30:51 14 Q. And then there's another fee assessment right 10:30:54 15 underneath that for March -- I mean April 4th of '06 10:30:59 16 for $150.00. Do you see that? 10:31:01 17 A. Yes, sir. 10:31:03 18 Q. And that was also put into the fee balance, 10:31:06 19 not escrow; is that correct? 10:31:08 20 A. Yes, sir. 10:31:08 21 Q. And then if you will go down towards the 10:31:29 22 bottom third of the page there is a line that says, 10:31:34 23 "Agreed order." And then right underneath that there's 10:31:37 24 a line that says, "General escrow distribution," dated 10:31:44 25 12/28/06. Do you see that? 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 12 10:31:47 1 A. Yes, sir. 10:31:47 2 Q. Could you describe to the Court what that 10:31:49 3 general escrow distribution was for or what that means? 10:31:53 4 A. That was for taxes that were paid. 10:31:57 5 Q. And that taxes -- are you referring to 10:32:01 6 property taxes, Ms. Baker? 10:32:03 7 A. Yes, sir. 10:32:04 8 Q. Those went into the escrow account or the 10:32:07 9 balance -- or owed to the escrow account under amount 10:32:11 10 to escrow; is that correct? 10:32:12 11 A. That's correct. 10:32:15 12 Q. And the last entry on this page says, 10:32:26 13 "Delinquent inspection assessed." Would you explain to 10:32:29 14 the Court what that is? 10:32:30 15 A. That's a property inspection. 10:32:32 16 Q. And it shows that that was done on March 7th 10:32:36 17 of '07; is that correct? 10:32:39 18 A. Yes, sir. 10:32:39 19 Q. And that shows that that amount is for $14.00, 10:32:43 20 correct? 10:32:43 21 A. Yes, sir. 10:32:45 22 Q. And that was added to the fee balance, not to 10:32:49 23 escrow; is that correct? 10:32:50 24 A. That's correct. 10:32:55 25 Q. And then on the next page we have another fee 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 13 10:32:59 1 assessment that was done on 3/27/07. Do you see that? 10:33:04 2 A. Yes, sir. 10:33:05 3 Q. And that amount is 744.47; is that correct? 10:33:09 4 A. Yes, sir. 10:33:10 5 Q. And again, that went into the fee balance, not 10:33:12 6 the escrow? 10:33:13 7 A. That's correct. 10:33:16 8 Q. And then we get to the payoff. Do you see 10:33:20 9 that? 10:33:20 10 A. Yes, sir. 10:33:21 11 Q. That shows that the amount of the payoff for 10:33:24 12 this note was $289,290.70; is that correct? 10:33:32 13 A. Not necessarily. That's the amount that was 10:33:34 14 remitted. 10:33:35 15 Q. Okay. But that transaction -- let me rephrase 10:33:38 16 the question. 10:33:39 17 The payoff that's listed here, the amount 10:33:43 18 listed for transaction amount is $289,290.70; is that 10:33:43 19 correct? 10:33:51 20 A. Yes, sir. 10:33:51 21 Q. And it shows that under the category amount to 10:33:55 22 principal that the amount that went to principal was 10:33:59 23 236,937.97; is that correct? 10:34:04 24 A. Yes, sir. 10:34:04 25 Q. And going down the column it shows that 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 14 10:34:08 1 $18,463.85 went to interest; is that correct? 10:34:15 2 A. Yes, sir. 10:34:17 3 Q. Then it shows that $31,322.74 went into the 10:34:24 4 escrow; is that correct? 10:34:26 5 A. Yes, sir. 10:34:27 6 Q. And that left a balance of $1,198.64. This 10:34:38 7 shows total from late charge, and that was paid to late 10:34:42 8 charge; is that correct? 10:34:43 9 A. Yes. 10:34:43 10 Q. And then when all of those fees were paid out 10:34:48 11 of the $289,290.70, if I'm reading that under -- 10:34:56 12 correctly, there was also a balance -- or there was 10:35:01 13 unapplied funds of 947.73; is that correct? 10:35:05 14 A. Yes, sir. 10:35:06 15 Q. And then when you add that 1,198.64 and the 10:35:12 16 9 -- wait a minute. I think I'm missing something 10:35:12 17 here. 10:35:15 18 There was a -- if you add what was left 10:35:17 19 plus the 947.73 in unapplied funds that leaves 2,315.23 10:35:26 20 left; is that correct? 10:35:28 21 A. I'm sorry? Can you -- can you say that again? 10:35:31 22 Q. If you look on the second to the last category 10:35:34 23 from the spreadsheet there is a number listed there of 10:35:37 24 $2,315.23? 10:35:41 25 A. That's correct. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 15 10:35:43 1 Q. Okay. And then that was applied to the fee 10:35:46 2 balance of 2,998.42 leaving a balance of 683.19; is 10:35:46 3 that correct? 10:35:53 4 A. Yes, sir. 10:35:54 5 Q. Now, if you will turn your attention, 10:35:56 6 Ms. Baker, again to the amount paid to escrow and the 10:36:00 7 escrow balance, it shows that the amount owed in escrow 10:36:07 8 was less than the amount paid to escrow from the 10:36:10 9 payoff; is that correct? 10:36:11 10 A. That's correct. 10:36:12 11 Q. And the remaining balance of $2,007.04 was 10:36:18 12 refunded to Mr. Hammer; is that correct? 10:36:21 13 A. Yes, sir. 10:36:21 14 Q. Now, this $2,007.04 was from the amount over 10:36:27 15 charged for escrow; is that correct? 10:36:29 16 MR. LEWIS: Object as to form of the 10:36:32 17 question. 10:36:33 18 A. No, sir. I don't believe that's correct. 10:36:34 19 Q. (BY MR. PRICE) Okay. Well, you look at the 10:36:36 20 amount to escrow, it shows 31,322.74; is that right? 10:36:41 21 A. Correct. 10:36:41 22 Q. If you look at the escrow balance, it shows 10:36:44 23 29,315.70; is that correct? 10:36:47 24 A. Yes, sir. 10:36:47 25 Q. And if you subtract those two numbers from 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 16 10:36:50 1 each other, the amount remaining is $2,007.04; is that 10:36:50 2 correct? 10:36:55 3 A. Yes, sir. 10:36:56 4 Q. And so that's the amount that was refunded to 10:36:59 5 Mr. Hammer on the first big note; is that correct? 10:37:03 6 A. That's correct. 10:37:04 7 Q. And these -- the $2,007.04 did not represent a 10:37:10 8 refund from fees charged to the account; is that 10:37:10 9 correct? 10:37:15 10 A. I'm sorry? 10:37:17 11 Q. The 2,007.04 did not represent a refund from 10:37:22 12 fees charged to the mortgage account; is that correct? 10:37:28 13 A. Did not represent a fee charged to the 10:37:32 14 account? 10:37:34 15 Q. Correct. 10:37:40 16 A. I don't think I understand the question. If 10:37:43 17 you could rephrase -- 10:37:44 18 Q. My question is, was the $2,007.04 refunded to 10:37:49 19 Mr. Hammer on the big note a refund from the escrow 10:37:54 20 over payment that was paid? 10:37:57 21 A. No, sir. 10:37:58 22 MR. LEWIS: I object to the form of the 10:37:59 23 question. 10:38:00 24 A. No, sir. 10:38:00 25 Q. (BY MR. PRICE) What was that $2,007.04? 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 17 10:38:03 1 A. It was the difference in between the amount of 10:38:10 2 the interest that was provided on the payoff statement. 10:38:15 3 It was a larger number. I believe it was 19,000. And 10:38:18 4 there was 18,000 paid to the interest. 10:38:23 5 And also the fees quoted on the payoff 10:38:30 6 statement were higher than what had actually been paid. 10:38:36 7 Q. Okay. Well, let's go over this again, 10:38:39 8 Ms. Baker. 10:38:41 9 Let's look at the escrow balance that you 10:38:44 10 show from the date the case was filed until it was paid 10:38:48 11 off, okay? 10:38:49 12 A. Okay. 10:38:52 13 Q. When -- the first entry on the escrow balance 10:39:00 14 is on 2/24/06; is that correct? 10:39:04 15 A. Yes, sir. 10:39:05 16 Q. And it shows there's a balance of $3,729.98; 10:39:05 17 is that correct? 10:39:10 18 A. Yes, sir. 10:39:12 19 Q. And then on 2/24 there was an amount paid to 10:39:18 20 escrow of $6,478.04; is that correct? 10:39:23 21 A. Well, it wasn't paid to. It was paid from 10:39:25 22 escrow. 10:39:25 23 Q. And what was that for? 10:39:26 24 A. Those were for delinquent taxes. 10:39:30 25 Q. Okay. And then it shows another one right 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 18 10:39:35 1 underneath that of $8,492.03; is that correct? 10:39:40 2 A. Yes, sir. 10:39:42 3 Q. Then it shows another one of 654 paid; is that 10:39:42 4 correct? 10:39:46 5 A. Yes, sir. 10:39:47 6 Q. And then it shows another one of 24,202.11; is 10:39:47 7 that correct? 10:39:52 8 A. Yes, sir. 10:39:53 9 Q. Then it shows another of $3,239.02; is that 10:39:53 10 correct? 10:39:59 11 A. Yes, sir. 10:40:00 12 Q. And it shows another of $1,957.42; is that 10:40:00 13 correct? 10:40:05 14 A. Yes, sir. 10:40:05 15 Q. Each of the items that we have talked about 10:40:09 16 are not for the category listed as fee assessment. 10:40:13 17 Would that be a fair statement? 10:40:15 18 A. That's correct. 10:40:18 19 Q. Okay. And then we have a long time before 10:40:20 20 something else was done, but it looks like there was a 10:40:26 21 payment made in 452.49 addition to that; is that 10:40:26 22 correct? 10:40:33 23 A. That's correct. 10:40:34 24 Q. And then there's another one from the trustee 10:40:37 25 that shows $2,873.17; is that correct? 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 19 10:40:42 1 A. Yes, sir. That -- 10:40:43 2 Q. And both of these are payments from the 10:40:44 3 Chapter 13 trustee; is that right? 10:40:46 4 A. Yes, sir. That reduced the escrow deficit. 10:40:49 5 Q. And then we come down again and then we have 10:40:53 6 531.71 that was paid into the escrow account; is that 10:40:53 7 correct? 10:41:00 8 A. Yes, sir. 10:41:01 9 Q. And could you explain to the Court what that 10:41:03 10 is? 10:41:03 11 A. That was a -- a trustee payment. 10:41:16 12 Q. Okay. Then we come down and we have another 10:41:20 13 payment of $1,023.15. And I'm assuming that was a 10:41:29 14 trustee pavement as well, correct? 10:41:31 15 A. Yes, sir. 10:41:31 16 Q. And then we have another charge that we have 10:41:34 17 already discussed that was for property taxes of 10:41:40 18 $7,731.26; is that correct? 10:41:45 19 A. Yes, sir. 10:41:46 20 Q. And then we have another payment from I assume 10:41:51 21 the trustee again of 487.64; is that correct? 10:41:55 22 A. Yes, sir. 10:41:55 23 Q. So, from the time this note -- from the time 10:42:04 24 that the bankruptcy was filed until the note was sold, 10:42:09 25 the amount owed to escrow was $29,315.70; is that 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 20 10:42:09 1 correct? 10:42:17 2 MR. LEWIS: I object to the form of the 10:42:18 3 question. 10:42:21 4 A. I think you said until it was sold, and I'm 10:42:24 5 thinking paid off. 10:42:26 6 Q. (BY MR. PRICE) Paid off. 10:42:28 7 A. Okay. Yes, that's correct. Yes, sir. 10:42:31 8 Q. And if you look at the escrow balance for 10:42:40 9 3/29/07, that is the amount listed in the escrow 10:42:43 10 balance $29,315.70; is that correct? 10:42:47 11 A. Yes, sir. 10:42:48 12 Q. Does that mean that that is the amount owed to 10:42:51 13 the escrow account? 10:42:52 14 A. Yes, sir. 10:42:54 15 Q. And the column immediately to the left of that 10:42:59 16 paid to escrow on 3/29/07 is how much? 10:43:07 17 A. 31,322.74. 10:43:10 18 Q. Okay. And you subtract 31,322.74, which was 10:43:15 19 the amount paid into escrow, from the escrow balance, 10:43:18 20 that amount equals the refund sent to Mr. Hammer, 10:43:22 21 correct? 10:43:24 22 A. Well, that's correct. However, that refund 10:43:26 23 was made up of the difference in between the interest 10:43:31 24 that was quoted on the payoff statement, because the 10:43:35 25 payoff statement I believe was good through March 31st. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 21 10:43:38 1 Q. Uh-huh. 10:43:38 2 A. And the loan was paid off March 9th. And also 10:43:43 3 the difference in between the estimated attorneys 10:43:47 4 fees -- 10:43:48 5 Q. But we have just established -- 10:43:49 6 MR. LEWIS: I don't think she was 10:43:50 7 finished answering. 10:43:53 8 A. The estimated attorneys fees versus the actual 10:43:56 9 attorneys fees that were paid. And actually we didn't 10:44:02 10 even collect all of them. 10:44:03 11 Q. (BY MR. PRICE) But isn't it true, Ms. Baker, 10:44:05 12 that the escrow balance did not include any attorneys 10:44:11 13 fees? 10:44:11 14 A. Correct. 10:44:12 15 Q. Okay. And the amount in the escrow balance 10:44:19 16 was $29,315.70? 10:44:24 17 A. Yes, sir. 10:44:26 18 Q. The amount paid to escrow was 31,332.74, 10:44:32 19 correct? 10:44:33 20 A. I need to back up. The amount in the escrow 10:44:36 21 account was not 29,315.70. That was the deficit. 10:44:42 22 Q. Okay. 10:44:43 23 A. It wasn't in there. It's what needed to be 10:44:45 24 paid. 10:44:45 25 Q. Fair enough. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 22 10:44:46 1 A. Okay. And, yes, the 31,322.74 was applied. 10:44:53 2 But it was it was applied for the reasons that I've 10:44:55 3 stated to you. 10:44:56 4 Q. But haven't we established, Ms. Baker, that 10:44:59 5 none of that included attorneys fees? 10:45:01 6 A. It didn't. 10:45:04 7 Q. Then why do you say that the $2,000.00 refund 10:45:08 8 was for a reimbursement of attorneys fees? 10:45:13 9 A. It wasn't for a reimbursement of attorneys 10:45:16 10 fees. It was for attorneys fees that were estimated on 10:45:19 11 the payoff that had not yet happened. 10:45:23 12 Q. But that's not what that $2,000.00 is. 10:45:25 13 MR. LEWIS: I object to the form of the 10:45:27 14 question. 10:45:28 15 A. It's a part of it. 10:45:29 16 Q. (BY MR. PRICE) From the time the case was 10:45:32 17 filed until the note was paid off, Ms. Baker, all of 10:45:39 18 those fees put into escrow were for property taxes and 10:45:42 19 insurance, correct? 10:45:43 20 A. That's correct. 10:45:50 21 Q. So I'm still -- I'm having -- help me 10:45:52 22 understand this, Ms. Baker. I'm having trouble seeing 10:45:54 23 where you're getting attorneys fees from that refund. 10:45:57 24 A. Well, if you will look at the -- and I don't 10:46:00 25 know what's in your exhibits here. Maybe I can better 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 23 10:46:04 1 explain it to you. 10:46:25 2 If you will look at your Exhibit 3 it 10:46:37 3 shows that the amount of the payoff due or quoted was 10:46:48 4 good through March 31st, '07. 10:46:51 5 Q. Uh-huh. 10:46:52 6 A. And immediately to the right of that is the 10:46:56 7 amount of the interest that was quoted through March 10:47:00 8 31st, '07, which is $19,285.02, if I can read that. 10:47:08 9 Q. Right. 10:47:09 10 A. But if you look at the amount that was applied 10:47:11 11 to the interest due because the loan was paid off on 10:47:16 12 March 9th and not March 31st, it's 18,463.85. 10:47:23 13 Q. Right. 10:47:24 14 A. Okay. So that makes up a portion of the 10:47:26 15 $2,007.04. 10:47:29 16 The other reduction is because there was 10:47:34 17 a -- a payoff estimate from the attorneys good through 10:47:44 18 March 31st. 10:47:45 19 Q. Uh-huh. 10:47:46 20 A. Which was like $5,015.00 and -- I can't really 10:47:50 21 read the amount, but I remember seeing that. 10:47:52 22 Q. We'll go over that in a minute. 10:47:56 23 A. However, there was only 2,315.23 that was paid 10:48:03 24 to the fees. So the remainder of that plus the excess 10:48:12 25 or what wasn't due in interest made up the $2,007.00. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 24 10:48:18 1 Q. Okay. 10:48:46 2 (Interruption by the reporter.) 10:48:48 3 Q. (BY MR. PRICE) Ms. Baker, will you turn to 10:48:50 4 now exhibit -- that I have marked as Exhibit 2? 10:48:53 5 A. Yes, sir. 10:48:54 6 Q. Would you describe to the Court what that is? 10:48:57 7 A. This is the payment history for the home 10:49:00 8 equity loan on the Hammers. 10:49:07 9 Q. And again, let's turn to the date the case was 10:49:10 10 filed, which was marked as 2/10/06; is that correct? 10:49:23 11 A. Yes, sir. 10:49:25 12 Q. And on that date there was a principal balance 10:49:28 13 on the note of 121,245.31; is that correct? 10:49:34 14 A. Yes, sir. 10:49:35 15 Q. And there was no escrow balance; is that 10:49:35 16 correct? 10:49:38 17 A. That's correct. 10:49:48 18 Q. And this note, if you go down about 10:49:52 19 three-quarters of the way down there's a fee 10:49:55 20 assessment; is that correct? 10:49:56 21 A. Yes, sir. 10:49:56 22 Q. 11/1/06 of $700.00; is that correct? 10:50:06 23 A. Hold on. I'm not finding it. 10:50:12 24 Q. It's in all caps -- 10:50:14 25 A. Oh, I see it. Yes, sir. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 25 10:50:15 1 Q. -- fee assessments. 10:50:17 2 A. Yes, sir. That's correct. 10:50:18 3 Q. And towards the end of this page it shows that 10:50:28 4 on 3/9/07 that there was a transaction amount of 10:50:39 5 145,068.93. Do you see that? 10:50:41 6 A. Yes, sir. 10:50:42 7 Q. And then it breaks that down into principal, 10:50:48 8 interest, escrow and so forth; is that correct? 10:50:52 9 A. That's correct. 10:50:53 10 Q. Then it shows that the principal balance was 10:50:58 11 120 -- $120,629.80; is that correct? 10:51:03 12 A. Yes, sir. 10:51:03 13 Q. And that the interest was 17,858.38; is that 10:51:03 14 correct? 10:51:09 15 A. Yes, sir. 10:51:10 16 Q. And the amount to escrow was $4,701.60; is 10:51:10 17 that correct? 10:51:16 18 A. Yes, sir. 10:51:17 19 Q. Okay. But there really wasn't an escrow 10:51:22 20 account on this note; is that correct? 10:51:23 21 A. That's correct. It was the overage. 10:51:26 22 Q. So that difference of $4,701.60 was refunded 10:51:32 23 to Mr. Hammer; is that correct? 10:51:35 24 A. Yes, sir. 10:51:40 25 Q. And this note shows that there was a fee 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 26 10:51:44 1 balance on 3/9 of '06 of $1,952.53; is that correct? 10:51:52 2 A. Yes, sir. 10:51:54 3 Q. And then from the proceeds of the payoff 10:51:59 4 $1,375.72 was used to reduce that balance; is that 10:51:59 5 correct? 10:52:05 6 A. Yes, sir. 10:52:06 7 Q. And then there was a -- still a balance owed 10:52:09 8 after payoff of $576.81 on the fee balance; is that 10:52:14 9 correct? 10:52:14 10 A. Yes, sir. 10:52:18 11 Q. Thank you, ma'am. Now if you will turn to 10:52:20 12 Exhibit 3. And this is -- I apologize for it being so 10:52:24 13 difficult to read. 10:52:25 14 This is the payoff receipt from Chase 10:52:33 15 Home Finance on the big note. It also lists a sheet 10:52:39 16 from the law firm of Barrett, Burke on total fees and 10:52:45 17 cost for case. And then after that it shows what fees 10:52:51 18 and costs were paid on that case. So let's go over 10:52:57 19 this. 10:53:00 20 MR. GORMAN: I have a better copy, Bill, 10:53:03 21 if you need it. 10:53:04 22 MR. PRICE: Okay. 10:53:05 23 MR. GORMAN: Just a little bit better. 10:53:07 24 You or she needs it. 10:53:15 25 Q. (BY MR. PRICE) The payoff statement on the 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 27 10:53:19 1 right-hand column towards the bottom has a number for 10:53:26 2 total fees and cost for case of $5,515.95; is that 10:53:26 3 correct? 10:53:42 4 A. Yes, sir. 10:53:46 5 Q. And if you turn to page 2, the fees and costs 10:53:52 6 that was prepared by Barrett, Burke, that appears to be 10:53:57 7 prepared on February 21st of 2007, that number 10:54:01 8 corresponds with what they're saying were fees and 10:54:04 9 costs assessed on this loan; is that correct? 10:54:07 10 A. Yes, sir. Actually, when we prepare a payoff 10:54:12 11 for a loan that's in foreclosure or bankruptcy the 10:54:16 12 attorney fills in the amount of fees. 10:54:18 13 Q. Okay. And if you will turn to page 3, this is 10:54:25 14 a -- it's a document called Fortracs default loan 10:54:30 15 management system. Do you see that? 10:54:33 16 A. Yes. 10:54:34 17 Q. Would you explain to the Court what that is? 10:54:36 18 A. This is from Chase Home Finance's system. And 10:54:42 19 it tracks the bills that we paid on the loan. 10:54:58 20 Q. And this -- these numbers on page 3, the 10:55:09 21 bottom amount on page 3 is -- the total is $3,837.61; 10:55:18 22 is that correct? 10:55:19 23 A. That's what this statement says. 10:55:21 24 Q. Okay. 10:55:23 25 A. But that's not correct. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 28 10:55:25 1 Q. Okay. We'll get to that in a minute. 10:55:27 2 And on the second page it gives a little 10:55:31 3 more detail as it looks like it's the same form, but it 10:55:34 4 puts in the dates that this money was distributed; is 10:55:34 5 that correct? 10:55:38 6 A. It puts in the dates and the amounts. 10:55:39 7 Q. Okay. And it -- that number is $3,837.61 as 10:55:48 8 well; is that correct? 10:55:48 9 A. Yes, sir. 10:55:56 10 Q. And this is the information that was provided 10:55:58 11 to us by your lawyers on discovery on this note; is 10:56:07 12 that correct? 10:56:07 13 MR. LEWIS: I object to the form of that 10:56:09 14 question. Calls for speculation. 10:56:14 15 A. I -- I believe it was. Yes, sir. 10:56:18 16 Q. (BY MR. PRICE) I will now return to the 10:56:31 17 payoff on the second note. This is Exhibit 4. And 10:56:40 18 that one shows towards the bottom that there were fees 10:56:44 19 charged of $4,946.38; is that correct? 10:56:54 20 A. Yes, sir. 10:56:54 21 Q. And on the second page it shows that this 10:56:57 22 document was prepared by Barrett, Burke on March 2nd of 10:57:02 23 2007; is that correct? 10:57:04 24 A. Yes, sir. If you don't mind, I would like to 10:57:07 25 back up -- 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 29 10:57:07 1 Q. Sure. 10:57:08 2 A. -- and reanswer my previous -- your previous 10:57:11 3 question. 10:57:12 4 It shows an estimate amount of what the 10:57:15 5 fees and charges would be through March 16th, '07 on 10:57:20 6 the loan -- 10:57:21 7 Q. Okay. 10:57:21 8 A. -- from Barrett, Burke. How much they 10:57:24 9 estimate the fees would be. 10:57:25 10 Q. And if you look at page 3 and the continuing 10:57:38 11 pages, that is a list of the fees and costs that were 10:57:43 12 performed on this case by -- or listed under Fortracs; 10:57:43 13 is that correct? 10:57:49 14 A. Yes, sir. 10:57:49 15 Q. And the total on page 3 is $2,461.11; is that 10:57:55 16 correct? 10:57:55 17 A. Yes, sir. 10:57:58 18 Q. If you look at the very last page, that's the 10:58:02 19 same exact number that's on the last page is the amount 10:58:06 20 owed is $2,461.11; is that correct? 10:58:10 21 A. Yes, sir. 10:58:19 22 Q. Now, Ms. Baker, I would like to turn your 10:58:22 23 attention to Exhibit 5. 10:58:28 24 A. All right. 10:58:29 25 Q. Would you explain to the Court what that is? 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 30 10:58:31 1 A. It's a bill from Barrett, Burke dated May 10:58:37 2 26th, 2006 for $875.00. 10:58:41 3 Q. And on this bill it looks like this was a bill 10:58:47 4 for a motion for relief from stay; is that correct? 10:58:53 5 A. Yes, sir. 10:58:54 6 Q. And if you look at the charge of 526.06, it 10:58:59 7 shows -- it breaks it down into two different 10:59:02 8 categories; is that correct? 10:59:05 9 A. Three different categories. 10:59:09 10 Q. Okay. The first one says recoverable; is that 10:59:09 11 right? 10:59:13 12 A. Yes, sir. 10:59:14 13 Q. And shows 525; is that correct? 10:59:16 14 A. Yes, sir. 10:59:17 15 Q. The next one is non-recoverable. And that 10:59:21 16 shows $200.00; is that correct? 10:59:22 17 A. Yes, sir. 10:59:24 18 Q. The next one shows item total, which is 725; 10:59:24 19 is that correct? 10:59:29 20 A. Yes, sir. 10:59:29 21 Q. Would you explain to the Court the difference 10:59:33 22 between recoverable and non-recoverable? 10:59:36 23 A. Well, on this one the investor Fannie Mae has 10:59:41 24 a guideline. And it says that for motion for relief 10:59:46 25 from stay Fannie Mae will authorize 525, basically. So 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 31 10:59:52 1 the $200.00 is not recoverable. 10:59:54 2 Q. And what does that mean? Not recoverable? 10:59:57 3 A. That it won't be charged to the borrower. 11:00:02 4 Q. Okay. Now, I apologize for switching back to 11:00:08 5 Exhibit 1, but would you look on Exhibit 1 for me 11:00:14 6 again, Ms. Baker? 11:00:17 7 A. Yes. 11:00:19 8 Q. And it says, oh, about I would say one-third 11:00:32 9 towards the bottom there is -- or towards the top 11:00:36 10 there's a line that says, "fee assessment." This shows 11:00:39 11 that a fee assessment on 6/2 of '06; is that correct? 11:00:47 12 A. Yes, sir. 11:00:48 13 Q. And that shows the fee assessment on 6/2/06 to 11:00:54 14 be $875.00; is that correct? 11:00:56 15 A. Yes, sir. 11:00:57 16 Q. And this fee assessment was on 6/2 of '06; is 11:00:57 17 that right? 11:01:06 18 A. That's correct. 11:01:07 19 Q. This bill from Barrett, Burke was on 5/26 of 11:01:13 20 '06; is that correct? 11:01:14 21 A. Yes, sir. 11:01:14 22 Q. So the difference in days is six days; is that 11:01:14 23 correct? 11:01:19 24 A. Yes, sir. 11:01:19 25 Q. Would it be a fair statement to say that this 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 32 11:01:22 1 was a notation of this bill right here on the 11:01:26 2 transaction history? 11:01:27 3 A. I would believe so, yes, sir. 11:01:29 4 Q. And the amount charged to Mr. Hammer on this 11:01:31 5 amount was 875; is that correct? 11:01:35 6 A. That's the amount that was charged to the fee 11:01:38 7 balance, yes, sir. 11:01:39 8 Q. All right. Even though the bill said that 200 11:01:44 9 of that was not recoverable; is that correct? 11:01:46 10 A. That's correct. And we didn't recover it at 11:01:49 11 the payoff. 11:01:54 12 Q. And I apologize again for switching back to 11:01:56 13 Exhibit 5, but would you look at page two of Exhibit 5? 11:02:02 14 A. Yes, sir. 11:02:02 15 Q. And that is another bill on the second note 11:02:08 16 from Barrett, Burke to Mr. Hammer's account; is that 11:02:11 17 correct? 11:02:11 18 A. That's correct. 11:02:16 19 Q. And it has three categories in that one as 11:02:20 20 well; is that correct? 11:02:21 21 A. Yes, sir. 11:02:22 22 Q. It shows a -- for the motion for relief stay 11:02:26 23 on 10/24 of '06 that the recoverable amount is 525; is 11:02:26 24 that correct? 11:02:34 25 A. Yes, sir. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 33 11:02:35 1 Q. It shows non-recoverable is 25; is that 11:02:35 2 correct? 11:02:38 3 A. Yes, sir. 11:02:38 4 Q. And that the item total was 550; is that 11:02:38 5 correct? 11:02:43 6 A. Yes, sir. 11:02:43 7 Q. And just to reiterate, would you explain to 11:02:47 8 the Court again what the difference is between 11:02:49 9 recoverable and non-recoverable? 11:02:51 10 A. Well, this one it says that it's a private 11:02:54 11 investor. I believe it was a bank-owned loan. And I 11:02:58 12 believe it's the same exact explanation. 11:03:00 13 There's a set fee for filing a motion for 11:03:04 14 relief from stay that is recoverable from the borrower. 11:03:09 15 Q. Okay. And, Ms. Hammer (sic), if you look 11:03:12 16 again on Exhibit 2, the last page, amended proof of 11:03:24 17 claim. Underneath that there's a fee assessment for 11:03:29 18 11/1/06. 11:03:37 19 It's the very last page. There you go. 11:03:41 20 A. Yes, sir. 11:03:41 21 Q. And do you see where it says, "fee assessment" 11:03:44 22 for 11/1/06? 11:03:47 23 A. I do. 11:03:47 24 Q. And that amount is $700.00; is that correct? 11:03:50 25 A. That's correct. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 34 11:03:51 1 Q. So the -- the amount for fee -- that was added 11:03:54 2 to fee balance on this included both recoverable and 11:03:58 3 non-recoverable amounts; is that correct? 11:04:00 4 A. That's correct. 11:04:03 5 However, again, we didn't collect that 11:04:05 6 $25.00. 11:04:06 7 Q. Okay. Now, Ms. Baker, if you will turn to 11:04:24 8 Exhibit 6, could you identify that document for the 11:04:31 9 Court? 11:04:33 10 A. This is a proof of claim that was filed 11:04:42 11 regarding the big loan -- 11:04:43 12 Q. Okay. 11:04:44 13 A. -- on March 2nd, 2006. 11:04:46 14 Q. And who was that filed by? 11:04:48 15 A. Barrett, Burke. 11:04:50 16 Q. Okay. And would you turn to page 2 of that 11:04:54 17 document, please? 11:04:55 18 A. Yes, sir. 11:05:01 19 Q. It has a -- on the second column after the 11:05:07 20 payments missed it's got a category called allowable 11:05:11 21 charges. Do you see that? 11:05:13 22 A. I'm sorry, where? Where is it? 11:05:17 23 Oh, yes, sir. I see it. 11:05:21 24 Q. And would you tell the Court what the first 11:05:24 25 category is under allowable charges? 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 35 11:05:28 1 A. Post petition bankruptcy attorney fees and 11:05:37 2 costs. 11:05:38 3 Q. Okay. And what is the amount? 11:05:40 4 A. $125.00. 11:05:46 5 Q. And isn't it true, Ms. Baker, that that post 11:05:49 6 petition bankruptcy attorneys fees and costs is also 11:05:53 7 listed on the transaction history under Exhibit 1? 11:05:57 8 A. Yes, sir, it was. 11:05:59 9 Q. And I think we talked about that before and we 11:06:02 10 decided that was probably for the filing of the -- this 11:06:05 11 proof of claim; is that correct? 11:06:07 12 A. Yes, sir. 11:06:09 13 Q. And then it shows that the uncollected late 11:06:12 14 charges are 926.03; is that correct? 11:06:15 15 A. Yes, sir. 11:06:18 16 Q. And then it shows that there's an escrow 11:06:20 17 advance shortage of $58,573.88; is that correct? 11:06:26 18 A. Yes, sir. 11:06:29 19 Q. Then it shows NSF fees of $20.00 -- 11:06:33 20 A. Yes, sir. 11:06:33 21 Q. -- is that correct? Then it shows inspection 11:06:37 22 fees of $161.50; is that correct? 11:06:41 23 A. Yes, sir. 11:06:47 24 Q. Ms. Baker, that -- where it says NSF fees of 11:06:51 25 the $20.00, on the transaction history where would that 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 36 11:06:55 1 be categorized? 11:06:56 2 A. It will be shown -- let me make sure I have 11:07:06 3 the right payment history. Yes, I do. 11:07:16 4 There's one on the second page, page 2. 11:07:21 5 It's about three-quarters down. And it was assessed on 11:07:25 6 September 13th, '05 for $20.00. So it would go into 11:07:31 7 the fee balance. 11:07:32 8 Q. Okay. That was what I was getting at. It 11:07:34 9 goes into the fee balance; is that correct? 11:07:36 10 A. Yes, sir. 11:07:37 11 Q. And the post petition bankruptcy attorney fees 11:07:41 12 and costs where would that go on the transaction 11:07:45 13 history? 11:07:46 14 A. That would go to the fee balance as well. 11:07:48 15 Q. Okay. The uncollected late charges of 926.03 11:07:54 16 would not go into the fee balance; is that correct? 11:07:56 17 A. That's correct. 11:07:57 18 Q. The transaction history that you provided to 11:07:59 19 me has a separate category for late charge balance; is 11:07:59 20 that correct? 11:08:05 21 A. Yes, sir. 11:08:07 22 Q. The inspection fees of 161.50. Do you see 11:08:11 23 that on the proof of claim? 11:08:12 24 A. Yes, sir. 11:08:12 25 Q. Where would that go? 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 37 11:08:14 1 A. To the fee balance. 11:08:17 2 Q. Okay. So from this proof of claim that we 11:08:21 3 have, page 2, there are the post petition bankruptcy 11:08:26 4 fees and costs of 125 that are going to fee balance; is 11:08:26 5 that correct? 11:08:31 6 A. Yes, sir. 11:08:31 7 Q. The NSF fees of $20.00 would go under fee 11:08:37 8 balance; is that correct? 11:08:38 9 A. Yes, sir. 11:08:38 10 Q. And the 161.50 of inspection fees would go 11:08:45 11 under fee balance; is that correct? 11:08:46 12 A. Yes, sir. 11:08:47 13 Q. Is these the only three categories on this 11:08:51 14 proof of claim that would have went into the fee 11:08:53 15 balance? 11:08:53 16 A. On this particular one? 11:09:00 17 Q. Yes, ma'am. 11:09:00 18 A. Yes. As far as I'm aware. Yes. Yes, sir. 11:09:03 19 Q. Ms. Baker, if you will turn to Exhibit 7. 11:09:21 20 Would you identify to the Court what that document is? 11:09:25 21 A. This is the proof of claim that was filed on 11:09:34 22 June 2nd of 2006 regarding the big loan. 11:09:39 23 Q. Yes, ma'am. And who does that indicate filed 11:09:42 24 that document? 11:09:43 25 A. David Seybold, S-e-y-b-o-l-d. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 38 11:09:50 1 Q. And he is with what law firm? 11:09:53 2 A. With Barrett, Burke. 11:09:55 3 Q. Okay. And would you turn to page 2 of that 11:09:59 4 document. It has allowable charges on column 2 as 11:10:11 5 well; is that correct? 11:10:12 6 A. That's correct. 11:10:14 7 Q. Let's go over those. 11:10:15 8 The first one is the post petition 11:10:19 9 bankruptcy attorney fees and costs; is that correct? 11:10:21 10 A. Yes. 11:10:22 11 Q. How much is shown on that? 11:10:24 12 A. $125.00. 11:10:26 13 Q. And that is exactly the same as the previous 11:10:30 14 proof of claim we reviewed that was document Exhibit 11:10:36 15 Number 6, which is the first proof of claim; is that 11:10:36 16 correct? 11:10:39 17 A. Yes, sir. 11:10:39 18 Q. And then it shows uncollected late charges of 11:10:43 19 926.03; is that correct? 11:10:45 20 A. Yes, sir. 11:10:46 21 Q. And that also corresponds with Exhibit 6; is 11:10:46 22 that correct? 11:10:51 23 A. Yes, sir. 11:10:53 24 Q. And then the next item is called escrow 11:10:56 25 advance and shortage; is that correct? 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 39 11:10:58 1 A. Yes, sir. 11:10:59 2 Q. Would you tell the Court what that amount is? 11:11:02 3 A. The amount on this document is 35,906.28. 11:11:10 4 Q. Okay. And that amount is different from the 11:11:12 5 first proof of claim; is that correct? 11:11:14 6 A. Yes, sir. 11:11:14 7 Q. Could you explain to the Court what the 11:11:17 8 difference is? 11:11:17 9 A. No, sir. I don't know how -- 11:11:22 10 Q. Fair enough. 11:11:22 11 A. -- Barrett, Burke prepares the -- 11:11:25 12 Q. Okay. And then it shows NSF fees of $20.00; 11:11:25 13 is that correct? 11:11:29 14 A. Yes, sir. 11:11:31 15 Q. And that corresponds with the first proof of 11:11:34 16 claim; is that right? 11:11:35 17 A. Yes, sir. 11:11:36 18 Q. Okay. Then it shows inspection fees of 11:11:41 19 161.50; is that correct? 11:11:42 20 A. Yes, sir. 11:11:43 21 Q. And that also corresponds with the first proof 11:11:45 22 of claim? 11:11:46 23 A. Yes, sir. 11:11:46 24 Q. And on the second proof of claim that they 11:11:54 25 filed on 6/2 of '06 the fees and costs are identical to 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 40 11:12:03 1 the fees and costs of the first proof of claim; is that 11:12:03 2 correct? 11:12:07 3 A. Yes, sir. 11:12:07 4 Q. Okay. With that back drop, Ms. Baker, let's 11:12:17 5 go over the transaction history under Exhibit 1 again. 11:12:23 6 A. All right. 11:12:50 7 Q. Now, the fee assessment on 3/3 of '06 of 11:12:57 8 $125.00, we have established that that is less than the 11:13:01 9 proof of claim; is that correct? 11:13:03 10 A. Yes, sir, we did. 11:13:05 11 Q. The fee assessment listed on 3/27/06 of 420.87 11:13:15 12 is not listed in either proof of claim; is that 11:13:15 13 correct? 11:13:24 14 A. I don't know exactly how they calculated this. 11:13:35 15 Q. If you look at Exhibit 5 and 6 under fees and 11:13:43 16 costs, is the $420.87 listed on the transaction history 11:13:56 17 notated on March 27th, '06 listed in either of those 11:14:01 18 proof of claims? 11:14:47 19 A. I don't specifically see it. However, again, 11:14:52 20 Chase didn't prepare these proof of claims. 11:14:54 21 Q. Right. I'm just asking you what you know, 11:14:57 22 Ms. Baker. I'm not asking you to speculate. 11:15:00 23 A. No, I don't want to speculate. No, I don't 11:15:03 24 see it. 11:15:03 25 Q. And then right underneath that fee assessment 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 41 11:15:05 1 for March -- I'm sorry, April 4th, 2006 there is a fee 11:15:09 2 assessment of $15.00; is that correct? 11:15:11 3 MR. LEWIS: I object to the form. 150. 11:15:15 4 I think you said $15.00. 11:15:18 5 Q. (BY MR. PRICE) I'm sorry. It's -- on 4/4 of 11:15:22 6 '06 there is a fee assessment of $150.00; is that 11:15:22 7 correct? 11:15:25 8 A. Yes, there is. 11:15:28 9 Q. Is that $150.00 listed on either proof of 11:15:32 10 claim that we have reviewed? 11:15:33 11 A. I didn't see that, no, sir. 11:15:55 12 Q. Before we leave the proofs of claims, I'm 11:16:06 13 hoping that you can explain something to me, Ms. Baker, 11:16:10 14 about the discrepancy in the escrow advance shortage of 11:16:14 15 35,906.28 listed in the second proof of claim and the 11:16:21 16 escrow balance on the transaction history listed in 11:16:27 17 Exhibit 1. 11:16:32 18 A. I really can't. I don't know how it was 11:16:35 19 calculated. 11:16:35 20 Q. Do you agree with me, Ms. Baker, that the 11:16:38 21 amounts are different? 11:16:39 22 A. Yes, sir. 11:16:42 23 Q. Thank you, ma'am. If you'll turn to Exhibit 11:16:55 24 8, Ms. Baker. Would you identify for the Court what 11:16:58 25 that exhibit is? 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 42 11:17:00 1 A. This is a proof of claim on the -- the home 11:17:18 2 equity loan dated 10/17, 2006. 11:17:23 3 Q. And who prepared that proof of claim? 11:17:26 4 A. Angie Marth of Barrett, Burke. 11:17:31 5 Q. And that's M-a-r-t-h; is that correct? 11:17:35 6 A. Yes, sir. 11:17:37 7 Q. And on page 2 it lists in the second column 11:17:46 8 going down, allowable charges; is that correct? 11:17:49 9 A. Yes, sir. 11:17:50 10 Q. The first item listed on that is post petition 11:18:04 11 bankruptcy attorney fees and costs of 125; is that 11:18:04 12 correct? 11:18:08 13 A. Yes, sir. 11:18:08 14 Q. If you will turn to the transaction history on 11:18:23 15 Exhibit 2 -- strike that question. 11:18:36 16 It also shows uncollected late charges of 11:18:40 17 $220.48; is that correct? 11:18:43 18 A. Yes, sir. 11:18:45 19 Q. And we've already established that would not 11:18:47 20 be a fee charge; is that correct? 11:18:52 21 A. It doesn't go onto the fee balance. 11:18:54 22 Q. Right. Right. It goes into a late charge 11:18:57 23 category; is that right? 11:18:58 24 A. Yes, sir. 11:18:58 25 Q. And then at the bottom of the page there is a 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 43 11:19:09 1 notation called pre-petition attorneys fees; is that 11:19:09 2 correct? 11:19:13 3 A. Yes, sir. 11:19:13 4 Q. And that shows that the pre-petition attorneys 11:19:17 5 fees on this case was $275.00; is that correct? 11:19:24 6 A. Yes, sir. 11:19:24 7 Q. And that would go into the fee balance; is 11:19:24 8 that correct? 11:19:27 9 A. Yes, sir. 11:19:31 10 Q. Now, if you will look back on Exhibit 2. 11:19:36 11 Unfortunately there's not much history as concerns us, 11:19:40 12 but on the middle of the page where it shows the case 11:19:44 13 was filed on February of '06. Do you see that? 11:19:52 14 A. Yes, sir. 11:19:52 15 Q. And if you go down all the way towards the 11:19:55 16 bottom or towards -- go all the way to the right, the 11:20:00 17 notation before that notation under fee balance shows 11:20:07 18 $1,188.61; is that correct? 11:20:12 19 A. Yes, sir. 11:20:13 20 Q. And the notation immediately after that was 11:20:17 21 filed is $1,188.61; is that correct? 11:20:23 22 A. Yes, sir. 11:20:26 23 Q. And that amount on the fee balance on the 11:20:29 24 second note is not listed in the proof of claim? 11:20:32 25 A. No, sir. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 44 11:20:33 1 Q. Okay. And I apologize for doing this to you, 11:20:45 2 Ms. Baker, but I forgot to ask you a question about 11:20:51 3 Exhibit 6. 11:20:54 4 A. 6? 11:20:55 5 Q. Yes, ma'am. And it won't be long, I promise. 11:21:03 6 On page 3 of Exhibit 1 there's a notation 11:21:07 7 where the bankruptcy case was filed. It's on Exhibit 11:21:12 8 1. 11:21:12 9 A. On 1? 11:21:12 10 Q. Yes, ma'am. 11:21:13 11 A. I thought we were going to 6. 11:21:15 12 Q. Well, we are. We're going to reference both 11:21:17 13 of those. 11:21:17 14 A. Okay. I'm sorry. And where did you want me 11:21:21 15 to go on 1? 11:21:22 16 Q. Page 3, top part of the page where it says 11:21:27 17 filed bankruptcy case 06-0569. 11:21:30 18 A. Yes, sir. 11:21:30 19 Q. And I want you to go all the way across the 11:21:33 20 page for fee balance. And the one listed immediately 11:21:39 21 before that on fee balance is $900.74; is that correct? 11:21:44 22 A. Yes, sir. 11:21:46 23 Q. And that 900.74 does not correspond with the 11:21:51 24 fee balance listed on the proof of claim 6; is that 11:21:51 25 correct? 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 45 11:21:55 1 A. That's correct. 11:21:58 2 Q. And this proof of claim, just for 11:22:00 3 clarification, was filed on 3/2, 2006; is that correct? 11:22:12 4 A. Yes, sir. 11:22:12 5 Q. Now, if you will turn to Exhibit 7. That is 11:22:19 6 the second -- or amended proof of claim filed on the 11:22:22 7 big note by Barrett, Burke; is that correct? 11:22:28 8 A. I've got to get back to 7. 11:22:39 9 I'm sorry. And your question again? 11:22:41 10 Q. The $900.74 listed previously before and right 11:22:51 11 after the bankruptcy case was filed under fee balance 11:22:55 12 was $900.74; is that correct? 11:23:00 13 A. Yes, sir. 11:23:00 14 Q. And that amount is not -- does not correspond 11:23:06 15 with the proof of claim for fee balance; is that 11:23:06 16 correct? 11:23:10 17 A. That's correct. 11:23:11 18 Q. Okay. 11:23:27 19 MR. PRICE: If you don't mind, if we can 11:23:30 20 take about a 10 minutes recess. 11:23:32 21 MR. LEWIS: That would be fine. 11:23:33 22 MR. PRICE: I think we're about done, 11:23:35 23 Ms. Baker. 11:23:35 24 MR. LEWIS: Okay. 11:23:36 25 (A 50 minute recess was taken.) 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 46 11:23:37 1 MR. LEWIS: I want to visit about this 12:14:01 2 for a second. 12:14:01 3 As I understand it, Mr. Gorman, you're 12:14:03 4 now wanting to ask questions after Mr. Price has 12:14:06 5 completed his questions. 12:14:08 6 MR. GORMAN: Yes. 12:14:09 7 MR. LEWIS: Right? Both on behalf of the 12:14:10 8 same party, Mr. Hammer, correct? 12:14:13 9 MR. GORMAN: Yes. 12:14:14 10 MR. LEWIS: All right. Mr. Price, do you 12:14:15 11 plan to ask additional questions after Mr. Gorman asks 12:14:19 12 questions? 12:14:19 13 MR. PRICE: No. 12:14:20 14 MR. LEWIS: So you're finish for the day? 12:14:22 15 MR. PRICE: Yes. 12:14:22 16 MR. LEWIS: All right. So, as long as we 12:14:23 17 have that understanding -- and I just want to make sure 12:14:26 18 it works both ways. You're going to allow us to have 12:14:29 19 multiple lawyers ask questions of your client at 12:14:31 20 depositions? 12:14:33 21 MR. GORMAN: We'll allow you to. 12:14:34 22 MR. LEWIS: What? 12:14:35 23 MR. GORMAN: We'll allow you to. 12:14:36 24 MR. LEWIS: Okay. 12:14:37 25 MR. GORMAN: What -- you seem upset about 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 47 12:14:40 1 this. Why couldn't you have just -- why couldn't we 12:14:41 2 just work this out and -- we've been acting in good 12:14:44 3 faith. We could keep her all day -- just let me 12:14:47 4 finish. And instead you kind of storm -- I mean, we've 12:14:49 5 had a good relationship and we want to keep it that way 12:14:52 6 with you guys. But instead of working this out--it 12:14:54 7 took us about 15 seconds, okay, we've agreed to it--you 12:14:57 8 stormed out of here with this bravado -- it was -- it 12:15:01 9 was kind of silly. And now you come back. I can tell 12:15:03 10 you're real -- it's not a big deal. You're over 12:15:05 11 lawyering. It's just not a big deal. It really isn't. 12:15:08 12 MR. LEWIS: Are you finished now? 12:15:10 13 MR. GORMAN: No. So what I'm hoping is 12:15:12 14 in the future that if there's an issue like this, 12:15:14 15 rather than getting all upset let's just talk about it 12:15:19 16 like civil human beings. Can we agree to that? 12:15:22 17 MR. LEWIS: Are you finished now? 12:15:24 18 MR. GORMAN: Can we agree to that? 12:15:25 19 MR. LEWIS: Mr. Gorman, I'm not prepared 12:15:27 20 to enter into any agreements with you today. Before I 12:15:30 21 left the room -- and I object to the characterization 12:15:33 22 of storming out of the room. 12:15:34 23 Before I left the room I suggested that I 12:15:37 24 was perfectly prepared to allow Mr. Price to continue 12:15:40 25 asking questions if, in fact, he wasn't ready to pass 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 48 12:15:43 1 the witness. 12:15:43 2 What I was not prepared to do at that 12:15:45 3 point in time was agree to allow you to ask questions. 12:15:49 4 And I think it's pretty clear, based upon case law I 12:15:51 5 just read, that you are not allowed to go back and 12:15:54 6 forth asking questions. 12:15:55 7 Based upon Mr. Price's representation 12:15:57 8 that he's not going to ask any more questions today, 12:16:00 9 I'm going to allow you to ask your questions. 12:16:03 10 But I think, based upon the same case 12:16:05 11 law, that if you get repetitive or cumulative of 12:16:09 12 Mr. Price's questions I'm allowed to shut it down. 12:16:12 13 So with that understanding I'm allowing 12:16:14 14 you to ask questions. 12:16:15 15 MR. GORMAN: Okay. 12:16:16 16 MR. LEWIS: I'm always willing to try to 12:16:19 17 work things out with you. I made my offer before I 12:16:21 18 left. It wasn't acceptable to you so I went and read 12:16:24 19 some cases. 12:16:25 20 MR. GORMAN: Okay. Do you have those 12:16:28 21 cases? 12:16:28 22 MR. LEWIS: I did not bring them back 12:16:29 23 into the room, no. 12:16:31 24 MR. GORMAN: All right. So everybody 12:16:34 25 ready to keep going? Are you ready? 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 49 12:16:37 1 THE WITNESS: Sure. 12:16:37 2 MR. GORMAN: Okay. Are you all set? 12:16:37 3 EXAMINATION 12:16:44 4 BY MR. GORMAN: 12:16:44 5 Q. Ms. Baker, who answered the discovery 12:16:46 6 questions in this matter? 12:16:47 7 A. I don't -- I don't know. Are you asking from 12:16:59 8 Chase? 12:16:59 9 Q. Yeah -- well, Chase and -- yeah. Yeah, it 12:17:03 10 would be Chase. Who from Chase answered the discovery 12:17:06 11 questions? 12:17:07 12 A. Someone that works in my department and I'm 12:17:13 13 sure our attorney. And I don't know who. 12:17:15 14 Q. Okay. Is that something you could get for us 12:17:17 15 at a later date? A name and -- a name of that person? 12:17:20 16 A. I imagine so, yes. 12:17:22 17 Q. Okay. And who else -- aside from that person, 12:17:27 18 who else? 12:17:29 19 A. No one that I know of. 12:17:31 20 Q. Okay. Didn't you just tell me that your 12:17:33 21 attorney -- 12:17:34 22 A. Well, yes. It would be Mr. Lewis. 12:17:36 23 Q. Okay. Did you have any input on the discovery 12:17:40 24 answers? 12:17:41 25 A. No, sir. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 50 12:17:42 1 Q. Who -- who prepared the proof of claims and -- 12:17:58 2 on Mr. Hammer's first loan, big loan? 12:18:01 3 A. David Seybold at Barrett, Burke. 12:18:12 4 Q. Okay. 12:18:13 5 A. I don't know whether he prepared the amended 12:18:16 6 one. And Emily Overton of Barrett, Burke. 12:18:24 7 Q. And who did they speak to to prepare those 12:18:31 8 proofs of claims? 12:18:32 9 A. I don't know. 12:18:36 10 Q. Is it safe to say that the information in the 12:18:39 11 proof of -- proofs of claims comes from information 12:18:43 12 from Chase? 12:18:45 13 MR. LEWIS: Now, I will ask you not to 12:18:48 14 get into any discussions that would have occurred 12:18:50 15 between Chase and Barrett, Burke because those are 12:18:54 16 privileged as attorney/client communications, so -- 12:18:56 17 you're certainly allowed to identify people, but don't 12:18:59 18 get into the substance of the communications. 12:19:02 19 A. I don't know. 12:19:03 20 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) You don't know what? 12:19:04 21 A. I don't know who communicated with Barrett, 12:19:08 22 Burke. 12:19:08 23 Q. That wasn't my question. My question was, is 12:19:12 24 it safe to say that the information that is in that 12:19:20 25 proof of claim comes from Chase? 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 51 12:19:23 1 MR. LEWIS: I object to the form. It's 12:19:25 2 over broad. You can go ahead and answer. 12:19:27 3 A. Some of it would, yes, sir. 12:19:29 4 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Okay. And what would that 12:19:31 5 be? 12:19:31 6 A. Principal balance. 12:19:33 7 Q. Okay. 12:19:40 8 A. The uncollected late charges, the NSF fees, 12:19:47 9 inspection fees, accrued late charges, post petition. 12:19:51 10 But we wouldn't answer pre-petition 12:19:55 11 attorneys fees. And we wouldn't put into post petition 12:19:59 12 bankruptcy fees. 12:20:00 13 The escrow advance shortage, I'm really 12:20:03 14 not sure if it's provided by Chase or if Barrett, Burke 12:20:09 15 was provided a payment history and figures it out 12:20:14 16 themselves. 12:20:15 17 Q. From -- how? How would they figure it out? 12:20:18 18 A. By looking at a payment history on the loan. 12:20:21 19 Q. And how would they get that payment history? 12:20:23 20 A. From Chase. 12:20:24 21 Q. Does Chase review the attorney's fees in the 12:20:34 22 proofs of claims? 12:20:37 23 A. Before they're filed? 12:20:39 24 Q. Yes. 12:20:41 25 A. No. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 52 12:20:43 1 Q. How about after they're filed? 12:20:44 2 A. I -- I don't know the answer to that question. 12:20:50 3 Q. Okay. And why is that? 12:20:51 4 A. Because I don't know the answer to the 12:20:54 5 question. 12:20:55 6 Q. Okay. So when did you first learn of 12:21:04 7 Mr. Hammer's dispute with the payoff loans -- with the 12:21:09 8 payoff amounts on the big loan? 12:21:14 9 When did you -- I'm sorry, let me 12:21:16 10 rephrase that. 12:21:16 11 When did Chase first learn about 12:21:20 12 Mr. Hammer's dispute with the payoff amounts on the 12:21:25 13 first loan? 12:21:27 14 A. I don't know the exact date. 12:21:32 15 Q. Do you have an approximate date? 12:21:35 16 A. No, sir, I honestly don't know. 12:21:38 17 Q. Okay. Did you review the documents in this 12:21:40 18 case? 12:21:40 19 A. I did. 12:21:42 20 Q. Okay. How many refund checks did Chase send 12:22:03 21 to Mr. Hammer on the big loan? 12:22:05 22 A. One. 12:22:07 23 Q. And what was that amount? 12:22:09 24 A. I believe it was -- and you're talking about 12:22:15 25 the refund after the payoff, correct? 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 53 12:22:21 1 Q. Uh-huh. 12:22:22 2 A. All right. $2,007.04. 12:22:35 3 Q. Okay. And that was on the big loan, right? 12:22:43 4 A. Yes, sir. 12:22:43 5 Q. Okay. And why did Chase send that refund 12:22:48 6 check to Mr. Hammer? 12:22:51 7 A. I believe I answered that question with 12:22:54 8 Mr. Price. 12:22:55 9 It was the difference in between the 12:22:58 10 interest that was quoted on the payoff, because that 12:23:03 11 was quoted through March 31st, and the attorneys fees 12:23:08 12 that were not charged to the loan. 12:23:18 13 And I believe also property inspection 12:23:20 14 fees came off as well. 12:23:22 15 Q. Okay. Could you itemize all of those three 12:23:27 16 for me? 12:23:29 17 MR. LEWIS: This is completely cumulative 12:23:31 18 of the questions that Mr. Price asked. 12:23:33 19 MR. GORMAN: He never asked her to 12:23:36 20 itemize the fees. So I'm asking her to itemize the 12:23:40 21 refund check. Okay? He did not go into this 12:23:42 22 whatsoever. 12:23:43 23 MR. LEWIS: The record will speak for 12:23:45 24 itself. 12:23:51 25 A. I can't -- I can tell you what was quoted on 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 54 12:23:53 1 the payoff. I haven't added it up personally. I can 12:23:56 2 tell you what was quoted on the payoff versus what was 12:24:00 3 applied to the loan, if that would satisfy your answer. 12:24:04 4 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) No. No. My understanding 12:24:06 5 from what you just said, that that refund check of 12:24:09 6 $2,007.04 is -- it's from three different sources. 12:24:19 7 A. Correct. 12:24:20 8 Q. Okay. The first one was, you said it was 12:24:25 9 attorneys fees not charged to the loan. Is that one of 12:24:27 10 them? 12:24:29 11 A. That's correct. 12:24:29 12 Q. Okay. And of the $2,007.04, how much of that 12:24:36 13 is represented by the attorneys fees not charged to the 12:24:39 14 loan? 12:24:45 15 A. Do you have a calculator? 12:24:49 16 Q. Uh-huh. Sure. 12:24:50 17 A. Thank you. May I borrow a pen, please? 12:25:21 18 Q. Sure. Need a piece of paper? 12:25:27 19 A. Yeah, I've got on right here. 12:27:14 20 Did you say that you had a better copy of 12:27:17 21 this? 12:27:18 22 Q. I think I do, yeah. It must be here 12:27:53 23 somewhere. 12:28:08 24 A. Okay. Thank you. 12:28:10 25 Q. You bet. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 55 12:28:23 1 MR. LEWIS: Something funny, Mr. Gorman? 12:28:26 2 MR. GORMAN: No. My teeth are sensitive 12:28:31 3 to -- 12:28:32 4 MR. LEWIS: I see. 12:28:36 5 MR. GORMAN: Was I laughing? 12:28:37 6 MR. LEWIS: It appeared that way. 12:28:39 7 MR. GORMAN: It appeared I was laughing? 12:28:41 8 MR. LEWIS: Uh-huh. 12:28:42 9 MR. GORMAN: I wasn't. 12:28:42 10 MR. LEWIS: Okay. 12:29:30 11 MR. GORMAN: I think it's safe to say we 12:29:33 12 have a -- 12:29:35 13 MR. LEWIS: Pardon? 12:33:08 14 A. Quite honestly, I don't -- I can't come up 12:33:12 15 with that number because the amount that I'm coming up 12:33:16 16 with on the difference is the 683.19 which includes the 12:33:26 17 attorneys fees as well as the property inspections, 12:33:30 18 which is an amount that we did not charge Mr. Hammer. 12:33:36 19 And then there was a difference in the 12:33:38 20 interest that was quoted of 19,285.02 and we charged 12:33:44 21 18,463.85 as of the date of payoff. And those two 12:33:50 22 amounts equal 1,504.34. 12:33:54 23 However, there were additional attorneys 12:33:57 24 fees in the amount of -- here it is. It should be 12:35:20 25 right there. Of 3,837.61 that we also only charged a 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 56 12:35:37 1 portion of. 12:35:38 2 MR. GORMAN: Objection, nonresponsive. 12:35:40 3 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Let's start over, okay? You 12:35:43 4 didn't answer the question. I'm going to ask you a 12:35:46 5 real specific question. And I need you to answer a 12:35:53 6 specific, okay? 12:35:57 7 MR. GORMAN: Could you go back to my 12:36:00 8 question -- can you go back to my question to -- on the 12:36:03 9 attorneys fees. 12:36:28 10 (Record read back.) 12:39:46 11 MR. GORMAN: I'm going to run to the 12:39:50 12 men's room real quickly. I will be right back. 12:39:54 13 (Attorney stepped out of the room and 12:39:56 14 returned.) 12:39:56 15 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Okay. Sorry about that. Are 12:42:38 16 we ready? 12:42:38 17 A. Yes. $1,129.87. 12:42:47 18 Q. Thank you. How much of that was for loan 12:43:07 19 fees? 12:43:08 20 A. Loan fees? 12:43:09 21 Q. Yes. 12:43:10 22 A. I don't understand what you mean, loan fees. 12:43:12 23 Q. You told me that there were -- that that 12:43:16 24 refund represented three areas, one of which was 12:43:20 25 attorney fees not charged to the loan which you just 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 57 12:43:24 1 itemized for me. The other one was interest quoted in 12:43:28 2 payoff? 12:43:29 3 A. Right. 12:43:30 4 Q. And loan fees was the third one. 12:43:32 5 A. No, it was property inspections. 12:43:36 6 Q. Right. Sorry. Now, of the $2,007.04 how much 12:43:48 7 of that refund was for property inspections? 12:43:52 8 A. $56.00. 12:43:55 9 Q. Okay. And how much of it was interest quoted 12:43:59 10 in payoff? 12:44:00 11 A. The difference in between the interest quoted 12:44:03 12 and the interest paid was 821.17. 12:44:30 13 Q. Chase also sent a refund check on the small 12:44:34 14 loan to Mr. Hammer as well? 12:44:37 15 A. Yes. 12:44:40 16 Q. Was that $4,700.60? 12:44:45 17 A. 4,701.60. 12:44:48 18 Q. Okay. And why was that -- when was that check 12:44:55 19 sent to him? 12:44:55 20 A. March 30th of 2007. 12:45:11 21 Q. When was the check for $2,007.04 sent to him? 12:45:18 22 A. You know, I'm sorry, I had that date wrong on 12:45:29 23 the last one. 12:45:29 24 Q. Okay. 12:45:30 25 A. It was April 5th, 20- -- just one second, 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 58 12:45:37 1 transaction date. No, it was March 30. I'm sorry. 12:45:39 2 And that was the same date. 12:45:40 3 Q. Okay. So both of the checks were sent on 12:45:46 4 March 30th of 2007? 12:45:49 5 A. Correct. 12:45:52 6 Q. Were those fees itemized for Mr. Hammer? 12:45:56 7 A. The refund checks? 12:45:57 8 Q. Uh-huh. 12:45:58 9 A. No, sir. 12:45:58 10 Q. And why not? 12:45:59 11 A. I don't believe that it's itemized. 12:46:05 12 Q. Was there a letter sent to him explaining why 12:46:10 13 he was getting a refund check? 12:46:12 14 A. There's a form letter that normally states 12:46:18 15 that the loan was overpaid by this amount and here's 12:46:21 16 your check. 12:46:23 17 Q. Is it typically broken down? 12:46:25 18 A. Not that I'm aware of. 12:46:31 19 Q. Why was the check of $4,007.01 and 60 cents 12:46:38 20 (sic) sent to him? 12:46:40 21 A. Why? 12:46:41 22 Q. Uh-huh. 12:46:42 23 A. For the same reason that I explained with 12:46:46 24 Mr. Price. It was the difference in the interest -- 12:46:50 25 Q. Okay. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 59 12:46:53 1 A. -- attorneys fees. 12:46:54 2 Q. Okay. 12:46:55 3 A. And I don't believe that I said it to 12:46:57 4 Mr. Price, but the property inspection fees. 12:47:06 5 Q. Okay. Of the $4,701.60 how much of that is a 12:47:17 6 refund for attorneys fees? 12:47:20 7 A. I don't know. I will have to calculate it out 12:47:22 8 again. 13:01:48 9 Okay. I'm sorry. 13:01:49 10 Q. That's okay. It's quite all right. Hang on 13:01:53 11 one second. 13:02:05 12 A. 3,570.66. 13:02:15 13 Q. $3,570.66? 13:02:18 14 A. Correct. 13:02:18 15 Q. That was a refund of attorneys fees? 13:02:21 16 A. That's what was not charged. 13:02:24 17 MR. GORMAN: Okay. I'm sorry. The 13:02:28 18 question was quite a while ago so I don't even remember 13:02:31 19 what it was. 13:02:32 20 Could you please bring up my last 13:02:34 21 question. 13:02:45 22 (Record read back.) 13:02:48 23 A. So -- 13:02:48 24 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) $3,570.66 was a refund for 13:02:53 25 attorneys fees? 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 60 13:02:54 1 A. Right. It was the difference in between what 13:02:57 2 was quoted on the payoff statement and what was 13:03:00 3 charged. 13:03:00 4 Q. Okay. So of the $4,701.60 the attorneys -- 13:03:09 5 the attorneys fees refund was $3,570.66? 13:03:16 6 A. That's correct. 13:03:17 7 Q. How about the property inspection fees? 13:03:19 8 A. $28.00. 13:03:22 9 Q. And how about the interest? 13:03:23 10 A. 1,102.94. 13:03:28 11 Q. And what date does that interest refund 13:03:31 12 represent? 13:03:32 13 A. On this loan it was posted on March 9th. So 13:03:48 14 the interest refund -- and I believe the interest was 13:03:56 15 to 3/16. So actually it's not a long time at all. 13:04:07 16 That's what my calculations came up with. 13:04:09 17 MR. GORMAN: Okay. I'm going to -- just 13:04:12 18 so it's a cleaner record, could you please read back my 13:04:16 19 last question on that that I asked her? 13:04:25 20 (Record read back.) 13:04:28 21 A. I don't understand your question. 13:04:29 22 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Okay. How did you arrive at 13:04:32 23 an interest refund of 1,102.94 then? 13:04:36 24 A. I took the 4,701.60, subtracted out the amount 13:04:43 25 that we collected from the attorneys fees and 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 61 13:04:50 1 subtracted out the property inspections and came up 13:04:57 2 with 1,102.94. 13:04:59 3 Q. Okay. So by elimination you came up with 13:05:02 4 1,102.94? 13:05:03 5 A. Right. 13:05:05 6 Q. And that refund is for what portion of time? 13:05:08 7 A. Well, I don't think I'm right on the 1,102, 13:05:14 8 quite honestly. Because the loan payoff was posted on 13:05:23 9 3/9 and the payoff quote was good through 3/16, so it's 13:05:31 10 only a week. 13:05:32 11 Q. Okay. 13:05:33 12 A. And the per diem is only $25.00 a day. 13:05:37 13 MR. GORMAN: Objection, nonresponsive. 13:05:42 14 Could you -- could you please read back 13:05:44 15 my prior question. 13:05:56 16 (Record read back.) 13:06:00 17 A. 3/9 to 3/17 -- 16. 13:06:08 18 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) 3/9 of '07 to 3/16? 13:06:13 19 A. Correct. 13:06:14 20 Q. Okay. Thanks. What interest rate did you 13:06:22 21 charge for the mortgage arrearage on the first loan 13:06:30 22 during this bankruptcy? 13:06:31 23 A. The same as the original interest rate that 13:06:36 24 was signed for. 13:06:39 25 Q. Okay. Do you know what that is? 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 62 13:06:43 1 A. I don't have a copy of the mortgage here, I 13:06:47 2 don't believe, so I don't remember off the top of my 13:06:49 3 head. If you could show me a copy -- 13:06:53 4 Q. So it would be the amount that was in the 13:06:55 5 original note? 13:06:57 6 A. Yes. That's correct. 13:06:59 7 Q. How much interest did you charge Mr. Hammer on 13:07:03 8 the mortgage arrears for the smaller loan during the 13:07:13 9 course of his bankruptcy? 13:07:14 10 A. The same interest rate that was in the 13:07:17 11 original note, home equity loan. 13:07:35 12 MR. GORMAN: I think I can tell 13:07:36 13 Mr. Jackson is getting hungry, so I think we should 13:07:39 14 break for lunch. 13:07:40 15 MR. LEWIS: That's fine. How long would 13:07:41 16 you like to break? 13:07:42 17 MR. GORMAN: Maybe 45 minutes. Is that 13:07:44 18 okay with you? 13:07:46 19 MR. LEWIS: Fine with me. 13:07:47 20 MR. GORMAN: Is that okay with you? Is 13:07:49 21 that okay? 13:07:49 22 THE WITNESS: Fine. 13:07:49 23 MR. GORMAN: All right. 13:07:50 24 (A 1 hour and 5 minute luncheon recess 13:07:51 25 was taken.) 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 63 14:12:20 1 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Okay. We are back on the 14:12:26 2 record and I'm assuming you're ready, Ms. Baker? 14:12:29 3 A. Yes, sir. 14:12:29 4 Q. Okay. The black book, please. If you would 14:13:13 5 take a look at this e-mail, Ms. Baker. Review that, 14:13:20 6 please? 14:13:20 7 MR. LEWIS: Is this something that's been 14:13:29 8 produced in the lawsuit. 14:13:30 9 MR. GORMAN: Yes, sir. 14:13:31 10 MR. LEWIS: Is there a Bates number on it 14:13:33 11 somewhere or -- 14:13:34 12 MR. GORMAN: Yes, sir. Down at the 14:13:36 13 bottom. 14:13:36 14 MR. LEWIS: I just see a date down at the 14:13:39 15 bottom. I was just looking. 14:13:40 16 MR. GORMAN: Actually, that has -- that 14:13:42 17 was produced -- I will get you a Bates number. 14:13:44 18 MR. LEWIS: Okay. 14:13:45 19 MR. GORMAN: One second. Here it is. 14:13:57 20 MR. LEWIS: If you don't have one with a 14:13:59 21 Bates number we can just mark this as an exhibit. 14:14:02 22 Either way. I'd just like to have either a Bates 14:14:04 23 number or an exhibit number so we know what's in the 14:14:06 24 record. 14:14:45 25 MR. GORMAN: Okay. It's going to be -- 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 64 14:14:47 1 it's Bates 164. So you know, it was sent to Mr. Jobe 14:14:50 2 on 7/6. 14:15:01 3 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Do you recognize that -- that 14:15:04 4 document? 14:15:05 5 A. No, sir. I've never seen this. 14:15:07 6 Q. You haven't? Okay. Did anybody from -- could 14:15:14 7 you just describe the -- just briefly describe that 14:15:17 8 e-mail? 14:15:18 9 A. Well, it's from you to Ybonne and -- I 14:15:26 10 don't -- is she at Barrett, Burke? 14:15:30 11 Q. Yes. 14:15:31 12 A. Okay. Coping Scott Hammer regarding -- 14:15:31 13 (Interruption by the reporter.) 14:15:36 14 THE WITNESS: It's Y-b-o-n-n-e. And her 14:15:40 15 last name is K-n-e-s-e-k slash F-o-l-t-z. 14:15:52 16 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) What's the -- what's the date 14:15:53 17 on that e-mail? 14:15:54 18 A. It is February 23rd, 2007, Friday. 14:15:58 19 Q. And for our purposes, Mr. Williams (sic), can 14:16:02 20 we refer to that as Bates number 164? 14:16:05 21 MR. LEWIS: Either by Bates number or 14:16:06 22 exhibit number, if you don't want to mark it. Either 14:16:10 23 one is fine with me. 14:16:11 24 MR. GORMAN: I'd prefer to just do it 14:16:13 25 with Bates 164. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 65 14:16:14 1 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) You never -- did you ever 14:16:15 2 receive any response from Barrett, Burke on that? 14:16:19 3 MR. LEWIS: Well, now I don't want her to 14:16:20 4 get into communications she had with Barrett, Burke. 14:16:24 5 Those would clearly be privileged. 14:16:24 6 And I would instruct you not to disclose 14:16:26 7 those. 14:16:28 8 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Were you made aware -- were 14:16:29 9 you ever aware of that document, that e-mail? 14:16:31 10 A. No, sir. 14:16:32 11 MR. LEWIS: Again, I don't want you to 14:16:34 12 get into conversation you had with Barrett, Burke. 14:16:37 13 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Are you aware of that e-mail? 14:16:38 14 A. Not until you handed it to me, no, sir. 14:16:41 15 Q. Okay. Thanks. Let me have that back. 14:16:41 16 A. (Producing document.) 14:16:46 17 Q. Thank you. Would you please, Ms. Baker, take 14:17:10 18 a look at a document I'm going to identify as Bates 14:17:13 19 stamped 189. It's a first interrogatory and production 14:17:18 20 request from Scott Hammer. It was done on March 31st, 14:17:27 21 2006. Please review that. 14:18:10 22 A. Okay. 14:18:11 23 Q. Do you recognize that document? 14:18:13 24 A. No, sir. 14:18:13 25 Q. Okay. Thank you. We talked about the taxes 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 66 14:18:55 1 paid on Mr. Hammer's loans, okay. And since there was 14:19:03 2 really only an escrow on the big loan, that's all we 14:19:06 3 really need to concentrate on. Is that okay? 14:19:09 4 A. That's fine. 14:19:14 5 Q. Could you tell me the dates that Chase paid 14:19:24 6 property taxes on Mr. Hammer's first loan as well as 14:19:35 7 the amount -- amounts? 14:19:42 8 A. Yes. 14:19:48 9 Q. And I'm going to have you just list them one 14:19:51 10 by one. 14:19:52 11 A. All right. February 24th, 2006 the amount was 14:20:07 12 $3,729.98. 14:20:12 13 Q. Okay. February 24th, 2006, $3,729.98? 14:20:19 14 A. Yes, sir. 14:20:19 15 Q. And who was that paid to? 14:20:22 16 A. From what I understand, they were all paid to 14:20:26 17 the Dallas County tax office. 14:20:29 18 Q. For what tax year was that amount paid? 14:20:33 19 A. I don't know what tax year. 14:20:37 20 Q. Okay. We need to know that. Could you -- 14:20:43 21 that was part of the documents you were supposed to be 14:20:46 22 answering today. So I need to know what tax year that 14:20:51 23 amount represents. 14:20:53 24 MR. LEWIS: I think the witness said she 14:20:55 25 doesn't know the answer. If she doesn't know the 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 67 14:20:57 1 answer, she doesn't know. 14:20:59 2 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Okay. Could you get us the 14:21:01 3 date -- I mean, could you get us the information on -- 14:21:04 4 for what purpose that was paid and the year? 14:21:09 5 A. I'm sure we could. 14:21:11 6 Q. Okay. When could you do that? 14:21:12 7 MR. LEWIS: We're not going to be making 14:21:15 8 any agreements in the deposition today to do anything. 14:21:17 9 You ask her questions, she tells you she 14:21:19 10 knows the answer or she doesn't know it. 14:21:20 11 If you think we haven't given you 14:21:23 12 sufficient information you can take that up with me. 14:21:25 13 MR. GORMAN: I'm taking it up with you 14:21:26 14 right now because that was in the notice of deposition. 14:21:29 15 MR. LEWIS: Duly noted. 14:21:31 16 MR. GORMAN: Okay. 14:21:32 17 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) So when can we expect the 14:21:35 18 information on that? 14:21:36 19 A. Actually, I think that it's already been 14:21:38 20 produced to you. 14:21:39 21 Q. Great. Where's it at? 14:21:41 22 A. You would should have it. 14:21:42 23 Q. Would it be in your interrogatory response? 14:21:44 24 Is that -- 14:21:46 25 A. I'm sure that it should be. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 68 14:21:54 1 Q. Why don't you show me where it's been 14:21:56 2 produced. I would like to take a look at it. Can you 14:21:59 3 show me that? Get that out -- here are your documents. 14:22:03 4 Here you go. Thank you. 14:22:08 5 MR. LEWIS: Teeth hurting again? 14:22:14 6 MR. GORMAN: Mr. Williams (sic), I'm not 14:22:15 7 going to dignify that with a response. 14:22:17 8 MR. LEWIS: My name is Lewis, Lance 14:22:20 9 Lewis. 14:22:21 10 MR. GORMAN: I'm not going to dignify 14:22:24 11 that with a response, Mr. Williams (sic). 14:22:27 12 MR. LEWIS: Mr. Williams? You just can't 14:22:30 13 quite get that name. Fair enough. I'm glad we have a 14:22:33 14 record of this proceeding. 14:25:46 15 A. Here it is. 14:25:47 16 This is the long history detail that 14:25:54 17 shows each and every transaction that was posted 14:26:04 18 regarding the taxes. 14:26:06 19 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Okay. Good. I'm going to 14:26:07 20 give that back to you. And then I'm going to ask you 14:26:09 21 to tell me who the February 24th, 2006 payment of 14:26:16 22 $3,729.98 was to. 14:26:30 23 A. To the Dallas County Assessor Collector. 14:26:52 24 Q. And for what tax year was that? 14:26:54 25 A. This will not tell me the tax year. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 69 14:26:58 1 Q. Okay. Is that something that you could get 14:27:00 2 for us? 14:27:04 3 A. I don't -- I don't know. 14:27:11 4 Q. Why wouldn't you be able to get that? 14:27:13 5 A. Because I don't know how we found out that the 14:27:17 6 taxes were delinquent. I mean we had to find out 14:27:20 7 somehow, but I don't know how we did. And I don't know 14:27:22 8 if they came with a break down. Sometimes they do. 14:27:26 9 Sometimes there's a lump sum. So I don't know. 14:27:29 10 Q. When you make tax payments on accounts do you 14:27:32 11 notate for what the taxes are going towards? 14:27:37 12 A. I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean. 14:27:42 13 Q. When you make tax payments -- 14:27:44 14 A. Uh-huh. 14:27:44 15 Q. -- to different taxing authorities do you make 14:27:47 16 a notation of -- 14:27:50 17 A. Well, if -- yes, sir. It has the -- the 14:27:54 18 homeowner's address, their taxing number, the taxing ID 14:28:02 19 number and the amount that's being sent. 14:28:07 20 Q. Does it say for what year? 14:28:10 21 A. No. No, sir. 14:28:13 22 Q. So how do we know for what tax year that that 14:28:18 23 was made? 14:28:19 24 A. I don't know the answer to that question. 14:28:42 25 Q. Is it your testimony today then that Chase 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 70 14:28:45 1 makes escrow disbursements and doesn't keep track of 14:28:49 2 for what year they're made? 14:28:51 3 A. No, sir. That's not what I said. 14:28:52 4 Q. Okay. So does Chase -- how does Chase keep 14:28:58 5 track of for what year specific escrow payments are 14:29:03 6 made? 14:29:05 7 A. I'm sure that we could probably find out 14:29:08 8 through our taxing department, but I don't know. 14:29:12 9 Q. All right. So you could talk to your taxing 14:29:14 10 department, right? 14:29:15 11 A. Yes. 14:29:16 12 Q. Okay. Is that something you could do? 14:29:19 13 A. I or someone in my department would do it, 14:29:22 14 yes, sir. 14:29:24 15 Q. And they'll will be able to tell us for what 14:29:27 16 tax year that amount was disbursed? 14:29:29 17 A. Yes, I'm sure that they probably would. 14:29:31 18 Q. Okay. Okay. Can you tell me the next tax 14:29:40 19 disbursement made on Mr. Hammer's loan? 14:29:45 20 A. Yes, it was the same day for $6,478.04. 14:29:53 21 Q. Okay. And to whom was that payment made? 14:30:15 22 MR. GORMAN: Can I have those back from 14:30:18 23 you? 14:30:20 24 MR. LEWIS: Sure. 14:30:21 25 MR. GORMAN: Thank you. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 71 14:30:44 1 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) I'm sorry. 14:30:45 2 A. Were you going to go to the rest room or did 14:30:47 3 you want me to answer first? 14:30:49 4 Q. Oh, I'm not going to the restroom. 14:30:52 5 A. Oh, sorry. It was made to the Dallas County 14:31:00 6 Tax Assessor as well. 14:31:00 7 Q. Okay. What was the date of that, Ms. Baker? 14:31:03 8 A. The same date. 14:31:04 9 Q. February 24th? 14:31:05 10 A. Yes, sir. 14:31:05 11 Q. Were those for delinquent taxes? 14:31:09 12 A. Yes, sir. 14:31:10 13 Q. So is it safe to say that those were not for 14:31:12 14 2006? 14:31:13 15 A. Yes, sir. 14:31:16 16 Q. So it could be for 2005? 14:31:18 17 A. Yes, sir. 14:31:20 18 Q. Could it be for 2004? 14:31:21 19 A. Yes, sir. 14:31:23 20 Q. Okay. And Chase's taxing department would be 14:31:29 21 able to -- Chase's tax department would be able to 14:31:32 22 determine what year that disbursement was for, tax 14:31:37 23 year, right? 14:31:37 24 A. Yes, sir. 14:31:39 25 Q. Is that information that you could give to us 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 72 14:31:41 1 at a later date? 14:31:43 2 A. Yes, sir. 14:31:46 3 Q. Do you know when you could get that to us? 14:31:48 4 A. No, sir. 14:31:48 5 Q. Is two weeks a reasonable period of time? 14:31:53 6 MR. LEWIS: Again, we're not entering 14:31:55 7 into any agreements with you today. 14:31:57 8 MR. GORMAN: Okay. 14:31:57 9 MR. LEWIS: If you think you've asked for 14:31:59 10 it I will take a look at it. If you've asked for it 14:32:02 11 we'll get it for you if it's available. 14:32:05 12 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) And my question, Ms. Baker, 14:32:07 13 is -- I don't want to put any undue pressure on 14:32:10 14 anybody. Is two weeks a reasonable time for you to 14:32:13 15 investigate that question? 14:32:15 16 MR. LEWIS: And I'm suggesting that you 14:32:17 17 not answer that question because he's asking you to 14:32:19 18 agree to supplement by a certain date and we don't have 14:32:22 19 an obligation to do that, so don't answer that 14:32:25 20 question. 14:32:26 21 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Let me ask you this then, 14:32:28 22 Ms. Baker. How long do you think it would take you to 14:32:32 23 find out that answer? 14:32:35 24 A. I honestly don't know, sir. I honestly don't 14:32:39 25 know how much research has to be done in order to 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 73 14:32:42 1 determine what tax years these were for. 14:32:45 2 Q. Okay. What is the next tax payment on the 14:32:52 3 loan? 14:32:52 4 A. It's the same date for $8,492.03. 14:33:01 5 Q. And who -- to whom was that disbursed, 14:33:04 6 Ms. Baker? 14:33:04 7 A. The Dallas County Tax Assessor. 14:33:14 8 Q. And what taxing authorities were included in 14:33:21 9 that payment? 14:33:21 10 A. What taxing authorities? 14:33:23 11 Q. Uh-huh. 14:33:23 12 A. It was the Dallas County Tax Assessor 14:33:28 13 Collector on Elm Street. 14:33:29 14 Q. Was some of that for the Dallas Independent 14:33:36 15 School District? 14:33:36 16 A. No, sir. It's all disbursed to the same 14:33:39 17 place, from what I understand -- 14:33:41 18 Q. Okay. 14:33:44 19 A. -- looking at the history. 14:33:48 20 Q. You're familiar that -- you're familiar with 14:33:51 21 different taxing authorities in a -- 14:33:54 22 A. Yes, sir. 14:33:54 23 Q. -- region? And there may be hospital 14:33:59 24 districts, there may be school districts. You're 14:34:03 25 familiar with that, right? That may receive some of 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 74 14:34:04 1 that money? 14:34:05 2 A. Yes, sir. 14:34:08 3 Q. Who would we need to speak to to get a 14:34:15 4 breakdown of for what tax year that money was paid? 14:34:22 5 A. Well, we would go to the taxing department. 14:34:26 6 The tax department. 14:34:28 7 Q. Okay. Who would be a person to speak to at 14:34:31 8 Chase regarding that? 14:34:32 9 A. I don't know the supervisor's name. 14:34:36 10 Q. Who -- can you give us anybody's name in the 14:34:38 11 department? Management level? 14:34:41 12 A. No, sir, I can't. 14:34:42 13 Q. How big is the department? 14:34:44 14 A. I don't know. 14:34:45 15 Q. You don't know how big the taxing department 14:34:47 16 is? 14:34:48 17 A. No, sir. I don't know the exact count of 14:34:49 18 people. 14:34:50 19 Q. Is it over 200? 14:34:52 20 A. I don't believe so. 14:34:54 21 Q. Is it over 100? 14:34:55 22 A. I don't believe so. 14:34:56 23 Q. Okay. Over 50? 14:34:58 24 A. I would say probably somewhere between 25 and 14:35:02 25 50. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 75 14:35:04 1 Q. So you do know? You have an idea? 14:35:06 2 A. Not -- but I don't have an exact number. 14:35:08 3 Q. Did I ask you for an exact number? 14:35:10 4 A. Yes, sir. 14:35:11 5 Q. I did? 14:35:11 6 A. You asked me how many people were in there. 14:35:14 7 Q. And who is the head of that department? 14:35:16 8 A. I don't know. 14:35:23 9 Q. Okay. How about the next disbursement? 14:35:31 10 A. It was also made on the same date for $654.00. 14:35:36 11 Q. Let me back up to the $8,492.03. 14:35:42 12 Is there any documentation that Chase has 14:35:45 13 given that would explain for what tax year that is? 14:35:54 14 A. I don't know. 14:35:56 15 Q. You're looking at it, right? 14:35:59 16 A. This shows tax disbursements, yes, sir. 14:36:01 17 Q. Does it say for what tax year -- 14:36:01 18 A. No. 14:36:05 19 Q. -- that disbursement was made? 14:36:07 20 Okay. So is there any documentation that 14:36:10 21 Chase has given that indicates for what tax year the 14:36:13 22 disbursement of 8,492.03 was for? 14:36:17 23 A. I don't know whether that was asked for or 14:36:21 24 not, sir. 14:36:21 25 Q. That's not my question. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 76 14:36:23 1 MR. GORMAN: Objection, nonresponsive. 14:36:25 2 Could you -- could you please read back 14:36:26 3 my last question. 14:36:46 4 (Record read back.) 14:36:49 5 A. Not that I'm aware of, no, sir. 14:37:08 6 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) On that figure would the 14:37:12 7 taxing department be able to produce for what tax 14:37:17 8 years -- year or years that disbursement was made? 14:37:20 9 MR. LEWIS: Object, calls for 14:37:22 10 speculation. 14:37:28 11 MR. GORMAN: Let me back up. Let me 14:37:31 12 reanswer (sic) that question. 14:37:31 13 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Who -- who would be able to 14:37:34 14 tell us for what tax years the disbursement of 8,492.03 14:37:39 15 was for? 14:37:40 16 A. We can check with our taxing department and 14:37:44 17 see if we locate that information. 14:37:46 18 Q. Could you do that for us? 14:37:49 19 A. We will investigate all of it for you. 14:37:53 20 Q. Would you be able to determine for what taxing 14:37:56 21 entities that money went to? 14:37:57 22 A. Yes, we would. 14:37:58 23 Q. Okay. 14:38:05 24 A. Or we would do our best to do that. 14:38:07 25 Q. Oh, I'm sure you could do it. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 77 14:38:10 1 Okay. For the $654.00 disbursement, who 14:38:18 2 would be the -- would it be the same department at 14:38:20 3 Chase that would be able to tell us for who -- to whom 14:38:24 4 that was paid? 14:38:24 5 A. Yes, sir. 14:38:25 6 Q. And they would be able to tell us for what 14:38:29 7 years it was paid? 14:38:30 8 A. Yes. 14:38:32 9 Q. And the different entities that it was paid 14:38:35 10 to? 14:38:35 11 A. Yes, sir. 14:38:35 12 Q. Could you please tell me, Ms. Baker, the next 14:38:41 13 disbursement -- tax disbursement made on the Hammer? 14:38:49 14 A. I think we talked about the 654 -- 14:38:49 15 Q. Yes, ma'am. 14:38:52 16 A. -- is that correct? 14:38:52 17 Q. Yes, ma'am. 14:38:53 18 A. Okay. 2,402.11. And that was also paid the 14:38:57 19 same day. 14:38:57 20 Q. And to whom was that paid? 14:39:00 21 A. I don't -- I'm -- I'm believing the Dallas 14:39:07 22 County Assessor Collector. 14:39:07 23 Q. And why do you say that? 14:39:08 24 A. Because if I recall correctly there was about 14:39:15 25 four years of taxes that were due. Since the loan was 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 78 14:39:20 1 made there had been no tax payments made by the 14:39:23 2 Hammers. 14:39:23 3 Q. And how did you know that? 14:39:24 4 A. I believe that we were notified by the taxing 14:39:28 5 authority. 14:39:29 6 Q. Do you have any documents that you brought 14:39:31 7 today that would shed light on that? 14:39:34 8 A. No, sir. That's normally how we're notified. 14:39:39 9 Q. How did you know that there were four years 14:39:41 10 that were delinquent? 14:39:42 11 A. Because the loan was made in 2002. 14:39:46 12 Q. So these taxes -- all these taxes were -- is 14:39:50 13 it safe to say that all these -- all these 14:39:55 14 disbursements were made for the years 2002, 2003, 2004 14:40:02 15 and 2005? 14:40:05 16 MR. LEWIS: Object, question calls for 14:40:07 17 speculation. 14:40:08 18 A. I really don't know the answer to that 14:40:09 19 question without further investigation. 14:40:13 20 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) What investigation did you do 14:40:17 21 regarding the taxes on this case? 14:40:22 22 A. What do you mean? What investigation? 14:40:25 23 Q. What -- what investigation did you do on the 14:40:29 24 tax -- regarding the tax -- taxes due on this case? 14:40:34 25 MR. LEWIS: I object to the form of the 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 79 14:40:35 1 question. It's vague and over broad. 14:40:37 2 A. I really didn't do any investigation. As far 14:40:41 3 as finding out what years, I read the file. And it 14:40:45 4 indicated that the taxes hadn't been paid and that we 14:40:50 5 paid the taxes. But other than that I didn't 14:40:55 6 investigate further. 14:41:00 7 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) And so far all these amounts 14:41:03 8 that you've given me are for delinquent taxes? 14:41:06 9 A. And penalties. The last two are penalties. 14:41:12 10 Q. The last two you just listed? 14:41:14 11 A. The 60 -- 654 and the 2,402.11. 14:41:20 12 Q. And how do you know that? 14:41:21 13 A. Because it's notated on the loan history that 14:41:23 14 they were penalty payments. 14:41:25 15 Q. Can I see where it's notated that? 14:41:31 16 A. Yes, sir. (Indicating). 14:41:33 17 Q. Okay. The loan was entered into in 2002, 14:41:48 18 right? 14:41:49 19 A. Excuse me. The 654 was not a penalty. The 14:41:54 20 2,402.11 was. 14:41:56 21 Q. What was the 654? 14:41:58 22 A. It was delinquent taxes. 14:42:00 23 Q. And these -- the disbursement, for example, on 14:42:18 24 February 24th for $8,492.03 is for delinquent taxes? 14:42:26 25 A. Yes, sir. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 80 14:42:28 1 Q. And those would not be for the tax year 2006? 14:42:33 2 A. I don't know, sir, without further 14:42:35 3 investigation. But it says delinquent taxes, so I 14:42:39 4 would assume that it wouldn't be. 14:42:42 5 Q. Could they be for 2005? 14:42:44 6 A. They could be. 14:42:46 7 Q. And they could be for either 2004, 2003 or 14:42:49 8 2002? 14:42:51 9 A. Yes, sir. 14:42:51 10 Q. It's pretty unlikely they're for '06; is that 14:42:54 11 safe to say? 14:42:55 12 A. Yes, sir. 14:42:56 13 Q. And I also show that on February 24th there 14:43:06 14 was a payment of $3,239.02? 14:43:11 15 A. Yes, sir. 14:43:11 16 Q. And to whom was that paid? 14:43:17 17 A. That was a penalty. 14:43:19 18 Q. Penalty? And to whom was it paid? 14:43:23 19 A. As far as I know, to the Dallas County 14:43:28 20 Assessor Collector. 14:43:44 21 Q. And I just want you to take a look at 14:43:47 22 interrogatory number 7. Just review that. 14:44:20 23 A. Okay. 14:44:21 24 Q. Is it safe to say that we did ask for this 14:44:24 25 information in discovery? 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 81 14:44:25 1 MR. LEWIS: I object to the form. It's 14:44:27 2 overly broad. 14:44:32 3 A. Well, it seems like we answered. 14:44:36 4 MR. GORMAN: Objection, nonresponsive. 14:44:37 5 Could you -- could you please read back 14:44:39 6 my last question to Ms. Baker. 14:44:46 7 (Record read back.) 14:44:50 8 A. Yes, sir. 14:44:51 9 MR. LEWIS: Same objection. 14:44:52 10 A. Yes, sir. And it was supplied to you. 14:45:02 11 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) And when is the next -- 14:45:11 12 what's the next disbursement that you show? 14:45:17 13 A. $1,957.42. 14:45:24 14 Q. And to whom -- to whom was that paid? 14:45:26 15 A. Dallas County Tax Assessor on February 27th. 14:45:34 16 Q. And what was the purpose of that payment? 14:45:40 17 A. It was for delinquent taxes. 14:45:44 18 Q. And what year was that? 14:45:46 19 A. I don't know. 14:45:54 20 Q. Who would we need to speak to at Chase to get 14:45:57 21 information on that? 14:45:59 22 A. Our taxing department. 14:46:02 23 Q. And they could also tell -- would they be able 14:46:06 24 to tell us for what entities that was paid? 14:46:10 25 MR. LEWIS: Calls for speculation. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 82 14:46:16 1 A. I would believe so, but as far as I'm aware 14:46:19 2 they were all for the Dallas County Tax Assessor. 14:46:25 3 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) And is that information that 14:46:27 4 you could provide for us? 14:46:30 5 A. We can certainly look into it and if it's 14:46:35 6 available we'll provide it. 14:46:50 7 Q. Is that my -- that's mine, right? The 14:46:52 8 document there? Or is that yours that you were looking 14:46:54 9 at? 14:46:55 10 MR. LEWIS: It's yours. 14:46:57 11 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Could I grab that from you, 14:46:58 12 Ms. Baker? 14:47:00 13 A. This? 14:47:03 14 Q. Yes. 14:47:03 15 A. (Producing document.) 14:47:03 16 Q. Thank you. On the invoices -- let me start 14:47:37 17 over on that. 14:47:38 18 What is the total amount of the attorneys 14:47:43 19 fees invoices that Chase provided in discovery? 14:47:47 20 A. I wouldn't know without reviewing the 14:47:50 21 documents. 14:47:58 22 Q. Do they equal the attorneys fees on the pay 14:48:02 23 off amounts for both loans? 14:48:04 24 A. Again, I wouldn't know without reviewing the 14:48:07 25 documents. I don't recall the specific numbers. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 83 14:48:09 1 Q. If I provide you with the documents would that 14:48:11 2 help you? 14:48:12 3 A. Yes, sir. 14:48:30 4 I thought you were going to provide me 14:48:32 5 with the responses to the discovery. 14:48:36 6 Q. I'm asking the questions here. 14:48:39 7 A. No, no. I thought that's what you were going 14:48:41 8 to give me. 14:48:42 9 Q. I think I have a question on the table. 14:48:45 10 A. Can you repeat the question, please? 14:48:47 11 Q. I just need you to get all of the invoices and 14:49:04 12 let me know what the total is on all of the attorneys 14:49:07 13 fees. 14:49:12 14 A. All of the invoices from who? 14:49:14 15 Q. From Barrett, Burke. From Barrett, Burke and 14:49:37 16 any other attorneys -- any other law firms that 14:49:39 17 submitted attorneys fees on these loans. 14:57:15 18 A. Okay. You want me to add them up? 14:57:20 19 Q. Please. 14:57:20 20 A. First loan? 14:57:22 21 Q. First loan, please. 14:57:23 22 A. All right. I want to make sure there's no 14:59:42 23 duplicates in here. 14:59:44 24 Q. All right. 15:00:41 25 A. This is -- all these are duplicates. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 84 15:03:10 1 These Barrett, Burke bills on the first 15:03:16 2 lien total $4,369.85. 15:03:30 3 Q. Is that a complete list of all of the fees on 15:03:32 4 the first loan? 15:03:36 5 A. For the attorneys bills for Barrett, Burke. 15:03:42 6 Q. Yes. 15:03:44 7 A. Yes, for -- as far as I know. What I have -- 15:03:47 8 what I pulled out. 15:03:48 9 Q. Okay. Are you aware of any other attorneys 15:03:55 10 fees to be charged on his first loan? 15:03:59 11 A. Not that I'm aware of. 15:04:04 12 Q. I would like for you to take a look at Chase's 15:04:09 13 Bates stamp number 9. It's Chase's payoff on the first 15:04:13 14 loan. 15:04:14 15 Would you take a look at that and 15:04:17 16 specifically the attorneys fees? 15:04:21 17 A. That are in the highlighted? 15:04:24 18 Q. Yes, ma'am. 15:04:24 19 A. Those -- that's prepared by Barrett, Burke. 15:04:31 20 Q. What is the amount of the attorneys fees? 15:04:34 21 A. I think it's 5,100 -- 5,000 -- 5,515.95. 15:04:42 22 Q. And how would you account for the difference 15:04:44 23 between the invoices that you just added up and that 15:04:48 24 amount right there? 15:04:50 25 A. I have no way, because they figure that 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 85 15:04:54 1 calculation. 15:04:56 2 Q. And what's the process that a borrower needs 15:05:01 3 to go through if they dispute, for example, attorneys 15:05:04 4 fees charged on their loan? 15:05:08 5 A. They would normally contact the attorney. 15:05:18 6 Q. Isn't that what Mr. Hammer did in this case? 15:05:22 7 MR. LEWIS: Objection, form. Calls for 15:05:24 8 speculation. 15:05:28 9 A. The letter you showed -- showed me indicated 15:05:31 10 that he did. 15:05:33 11 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Could you -- on the second 15:06:03 12 lien, Ms. Baker, could you add up all of the invoices 15:06:10 13 that were charged as attorneys fees on Mr. Hammer's 15:06:15 14 loan? 15:06:25 15 A. Yes, sir. $1,403.61. 15:08:34 16 Q. I'm going to have you take a look -- 15:08:37 17 Ms. Baker, it's document Bates number 162. It's Chase 15:08:43 18 Home Finance's payoff on Mr. Hammer's second loan. And 15:08:47 19 I'm going to ask you to review it. 15:08:55 20 A. (Witness nods head.) 15:08:57 21 Q. Do you recognize that document? 15:08:58 22 A. Yes, sir. I've never seen it this clear, but 15:09:02 23 yes, sir. 15:09:03 24 Q. All right. And who prepared that document, 15:09:11 25 Ms. Baker? 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 86 15:09:11 1 A. Well, Chase prepared the document except for 15:09:15 2 the insertion of the attorneys fees. 15:09:19 3 Q. Who at Chase reviewed that document before it 15:09:23 4 was sent to Mr. Hammer or to the attorneys? 15:09:26 5 A. I don't know. It's a computer generated 15:09:28 6 document. 15:09:30 7 Q. So were the attorneys fees not generated by 15:09:35 8 Chase? 15:09:36 9 A. No, sir. The attorneys fees are filled in by 15:09:40 10 the attorney. 15:09:41 11 Q. Who generated that particular document? 15:09:43 12 A. I don't know, sir. 15:09:48 13 Q. Who would have that information? 15:09:50 14 A. I don't know if anyone would. 15:09:56 15 Q. Where did it come from? 15:09:58 16 A. It's a computer generated document. 15:10:00 17 Q. From who? 15:10:01 18 A. From Chase, except for the blank that is 15:10:08 19 filled in by the attorneys for their attorney fees. 15:10:13 20 Q. Who at Barrett, Burke inputted the attorneys 15:10:18 21 fees? 15:10:18 22 A. I have no idea. 15:10:21 23 Q. Who would know that information? 15:10:22 24 A. I have no idea. 15:10:24 25 Q. Might Barrett know that information? 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 87 15:10:27 1 A. I have no idea. 15:10:35 2 Q. How do you account for the difference between 15:10:37 3 the invoices that you just added up and the amount 15:10:43 4 that's listed as attorneys fees in Chase's second lien 15:10:49 5 payoff statement? 15:10:52 6 A. I have no idea how -- I think that's a 15:10:57 7 question you would need to ask to Barrett, Burke 15:10:59 8 because I don't know how they came up with that amount. 15:11:02 9 Q. Do you consider that a big discrepancy? 15:11:07 10 MR. LEWIS: Objection, form. 15:11:11 11 A. Do I consider -- can you clarify that, please? 15:11:16 12 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) How much is the discrepancy, 15:11:20 13 Ms. Baker? 15:11:20 14 A. Between the amount of actual bills and the 15:11:23 15 estimated bills here? Because this is an estimate. 15:11:25 16 Q. Yes, ma'am. 15:11:26 17 A. Okay. Yes, sir. I can. It's $3,542.78. 15:11:58 18 Q. For someone in bankruptcy do you consider that 15:12:01 19 to be a large amount of money? 15:12:03 20 MR. LEWIS: Objection, form. Vague. 15:12:07 21 A. I don't know. It depends on what type of 15:12:13 22 bankruptcy they're in, who they are. 15:12:15 23 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Mr. Hammer's bankruptcy. 15:12:17 24 A. I don't know Mr. Hammer. 15:12:21 25 Q. Okay. If I gave you that amount in cash today 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 88 15:12:23 1 would you consider it a large amount? 15:12:26 2 A. Not huge. 15:12:29 3 Q. You must make really good money. 15:12:32 4 MR. LEWIS: I'm sorry, I couldn't hear 15:12:34 5 that question. 15:12:35 6 MR. GORMAN: I said you had must make 15:12:36 7 really good money. 15:12:37 8 MR. LEWIS: I object to the side-bar. 15:12:41 9 MR. GORMAN: I'm sorry. 15:12:41 10 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Ms. Baker, could you please 15:12:42 11 tell me on that second lien payoff, Bates stamp 162, 15:12:48 12 where it says "estimated"? 15:12:51 13 A. Well, it's -- it's good through March 16th, so 15:12:57 14 the fees are estimated through March 16th. 15:13:03 15 MR. GORMAN: Okay. Objection, 15:13:04 16 nonresponsive. 15:13:06 17 Could you -- Mr. Jackson, could you 15:13:09 18 please read back my last question to Ms. Baker. 15:13:22 19 (Record read back.) 15:13:48 20 A. I don't believe it does say estimated. 15:13:51 21 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Thank you. What other 15:14:02 22 attorneys fees were you contemplating -- what other 15:14:05 23 attorneys fees was Chase contemplating when they gave 15:14:08 24 this alleged estimated amount? 15:14:13 25 A. Chase wasn't contemplating them. It was 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 89 15:14:18 1 according to Barrett, Burke's records. I have no idea 15:14:22 2 how they calculated them. 15:14:24 3 Q. Okay. May I have that back from you? 15:14:33 4 A. (Producing document.) 15:14:36 5 Q. Thank you. Who at Chase made a decision to 15:14:49 6 give the refund checks to Mr. Hammer on the first and 15:14:55 7 second liens? 15:14:56 8 A. There is no decision making process involved 15:15:00 9 in that. It's what our system says that Mr. Hammer 15:15:05 10 owes on the loan. 15:15:06 11 Any overage is then automatically put 15:15:09 12 into the escrow account and it automatically generates 15:15:15 13 a refund check within about two to three weeks. 15:15:22 14 So as long as the amounts that were owed 15:15:25 15 were satisfied, then any additional funds automatically 15:15:29 16 go to escrow for a check to be cut. 15:15:32 17 Q. Who at Chase reviews any refund checks that go 15:15:36 18 out? What department reviews those? 15:15:37 19 A. I don't know. 15:15:38 20 Q. Is there a department that reviews those? 15:15:43 21 A. I don't know. I'm sure it would probably be 15:15:46 22 in our payoff department if someone reviewed them. 15:15:49 23 Q. How many people are in Chase's payoff 15:15:51 24 department? 15:15:51 25 A. I don't know. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 90 15:15:52 1 Q. Is it more than 500? 15:15:54 2 A. No, sir. 15:15:54 3 Q. Would it be -- approximately how many people 15:15:58 4 are in Chase's payoff department? 15:16:00 5 A. I would say between 25 and 50. 15:16:03 6 Q. And who's the manager of that department? 15:16:04 7 A. I don't know his last name. I know his first 15:16:16 8 name is Eric. 15:16:16 9 Q. Okay. Is that somebody from -- is that 15:16:19 10 information that you get to us after the deposition? 15:16:22 11 A. What his name is? 15:16:24 12 Q. Uh-huh. 15:16:25 13 A. Yes. 15:16:27 14 Q. Sound like a reasonable request? 15:16:29 15 A. Yes. 15:16:30 16 MR. LEWIS: I mean are you requesting 15:16:31 17 that Ms. Baker call you and give you that information 15:16:33 18 after the deposition? I'm sorry, I didn't understand 15:16:35 19 the question, I guess. 15:16:36 20 MR. GORMAN: No. No. No, just -- 15:16:40 21 obviously I'm not allowed to talk to Ms. Baker without 15:16:44 22 her attorney present. 15:16:45 23 MR. LEWIS: Okay. Well then I don't 15:16:46 24 understand what you're asking her to do. 15:16:48 25 MR. GORMAN: If she is in a position to 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 91 15:16:50 1 provide that information of a gentleman's name in the 15:16:53 2 near future. 15:16:55 3 MR. LEWIS: Provide it to me? 15:16:56 4 MR. GORMAN: Yeah. Could you read back 15:17:03 5 my question to Ms. Baker? 15:17:38 6 (Record read back.) 15:17:38 7 MR. LEWIS: Sounds like you're asking her 15:17:40 8 to give it to you. 15:17:42 9 MR. GORMAN: No, I'm not. I'm not. Let 15:17:45 10 me backtrack. 15:17:47 11 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Could you get the gentleman's 15:17:48 12 name in the payoff department to your attorneys and 15:17:53 13 have them forward it to us? 15:17:55 14 MR. LEWIS: And we'll consider reasonable 15:17:57 15 requests, but you're not to enter into any agreements 15:18:01 16 with Mr. Gorman today. 15:18:15 17 MR. GORMAN: Okay. That's about it, I 15:18:17 18 think. Let me just -- 15:18:34 19 Q. (BY MR. PRICE) And are all of the fees that 15:18:37 20 you provided, Ms. Baker, in discovery -- let me start 15:18:40 21 over on that one. 15:18:41 22 Have you disclosed to us all of the 15:18:45 23 alleged attorneys fees charged Mr. Hammer in discovery? 15:18:51 24 A. As far as I know, yes, sir. 15:18:55 25 Q. What facts do you have that support that 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 92 15:18:57 1 Mr. Hammer's acted in bad faith in this lawsuit? 15:19:01 2 MR. LEWIS: I object to the question as 15:19:03 3 overly broad and requests evidence be marshaled. 15:19:10 4 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Do you believe Mr. Hammer's 15:19:12 5 acting in bad faith by bringing this lawsuit? 15:19:15 6 MR. LEWIS: Object, calls for a legal 15:19:17 7 conclusion. 15:19:17 8 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Ms. Baker, are there any 15:19:22 9 facts that you have that would support the notion in 15:19:25 10 your pleadings that Mr. Hammer has unclean hands? 15:19:30 11 MR. LEWIS: Object. It's overly broad. 15:19:32 12 Asking her to marshal evidence. 15:19:39 13 You can answer, if you know. 15:19:40 14 A. I don't know the answer to that question. I'm 15:19:43 15 not an attorney. 15:20:17 16 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Just one or two more 15:20:19 17 questions. 15:20:20 18 I'm not sure I understand your answer 15:20:22 19 earlier. How does a borrower dispute any fees or costs 15:20:30 20 charged on a Chase loan? 15:20:35 21 MR. LEWIS: Objection, form. Calls for 15:20:36 22 speculation, overly broad. 15:20:39 23 A. At what point? 15:20:40 24 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Any point? 15:20:41 25 MR. LEWIS: Same objection. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 93 15:20:44 1 A. There's so many different ways that I could 15:20:46 2 think of. 15:20:48 3 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Maybe I can help. How about 15:20:50 4 at -- at say the sale of their home? 15:20:54 5 A. Okay. So the loan's been posted for sale? 15:20:58 6 Q. No, I'm sorry. Let's -- let's assume that a 15:21:04 7 borrower's selling their home and they receive a payoff 15:21:09 8 statement from Chase that they're disputing. How would 15:21:14 9 they go about disputing that? 15:21:17 10 A. And they're not in bankruptcy, they're not in 15:21:20 11 foreclosure? 15:21:21 12 Q. No. Is there a difference? 15:21:30 13 A. Yes, sir. 15:21:31 14 Q. Okay. Why don't you tell me the differences. 15:21:34 15 A. Well, if they're not in bankruptcy or not in 15:21:36 16 foreclosure, then they would go directly to Chase. If 15:21:40 17 they're in bankruptcy or in foreclosure they would go 15:21:43 18 to the bankruptcy and/or foreclosure attorney. 15:21:46 19 Q. And what happens after that? 15:21:47 20 A. Then either of the bankruptcy -- well, let's 15:21:53 21 do the first one. 15:21:54 22 To Chase, Chase would review the 15:21:58 23 information, if there was no bankruptcy, no 15:22:00 24 foreclosure, and we would respond to the borrower, 15:22:04 25 qualified written request. 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 94 15:22:06 1 If it was in foreclosure or bankruptcy, 15:22:10 2 then either the foreclosure or bankruptcy attorney 15:22:14 3 would respond to the borrower, if it was a simple 15:22:21 4 question. If they had questions they would come to 15:22:22 5 Chase. 15:22:25 6 Q. Who is "they," the attorneys? 15:22:27 7 A. The attorneys. 15:22:28 8 Q. Did the attorneys come to Chase regarding 15:22:32 9 Mr. Hammer's dispute? 15:22:34 10 MR. LEWIS: I'm going to object. That's 15:22:35 11 asking for an attorney/client communication. Don't 15:22:38 12 answer that question. 15:22:40 13 MR. GORMAN: Okay. We want to -- one 15:22:47 14 second. 15:22:59 15 Okay. We wanted to admit Exhibits 1 15:23:03 16 through 8. 15:23:05 17 MR. LEWIS: I'm not familiar with 15:23:07 18 admitting exhibits to a deposition. 15:23:08 19 MR. GORMAN: Attached. I'm sorry. Just 15:23:10 20 attach it. 15:23:10 21 MR. LEWIS: I mean you can attach 15:23:12 22 whatever you want if the witness has been asked 15:23:15 23 questions about it. I think they're all already 15:23:17 24 exhibits, aren't they? 15:23:18 25 MR. GORMAN: That's fine. Then we have 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 95 15:23:20 1 no -- we have no disagreement. 15:23:21 2 And I have no further questions of 15:23:23 3 Ms. Baker. Thank you. 15:23:24 4 MR. LEWIS: And those are the 1 through 8 15:23:26 5 that you asked her questions about, right? 15:23:27 6 MR. GORMAN: Yes, sir. 15:23:28 7 MR. LEWIS: Okay. Fine. We'll reserve 15:23:30 8 our questions until the time of trial. Thank you, 15:23:32 9 gentlemen. 15:23:32 10 MR. PRICE: Actually, I want to talk to 15:23:32 11 you about the information -- 15:23:36 12 THE REPORTER: Off the record? 15:23:36 13 MR. GORMAN: Yeah, we're off. Actually, 15:23:38 14 no, we're still on the record. 15:23:39 15 MR. LEWIS: Actually, we're off the 15:23:41 16 record. 15:23:41 17 MR. GORMAN: No, actually, we're still 15:23:41 18 on. When can we get the information in the taxing that 15:23:43 19 we talked about today -- 15:23:44 20 MR. LEWIS: Mr. Gorman, I'm happy to 15:23:46 21 visit with you off the record -- 15:23:47 22 MR. GORMAN: Okay. We're off the record. 23 (Deposition concluded at 3:23.) 24 25 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 96 1 CHANGES AND SIGNATURE 2 PAGE LINE CHANGE REASON 3 ______________________________________________________ 4 ______________________________________________________ 5 ______________________________________________________ 6 ______________________________________________________ 7 ______________________________________________________ 8 ______________________________________________________ 9 ______________________________________________________ 10 ______________________________________________________ 11 ______________________________________________________ 12 ______________________________________________________ 13 ______________________________________________________ 14 ______________________________________________________ 15 ______________________________________________________ 16 _______________________________________________________ 17 _____________________________________________________ 18 ______________________________________________________ 19 ______________________________________________________ 20 ______________________________________________________ 21 ______________________________________________________ 22 ______________________________________________________ 23 ______________________________________________________ 24 ______________________________________________________ 25 ______________________________________________________ 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 97 1 CHANGES AND SIGNATURE (Cont'd) 2 PAGE LINE CHANGE REASON 3 ______________________________________________________ 4 ______________________________________________________ 5 ______________________________________________________ 6 ______________________________________________________ 7 ______________________________________________________ 8 I, DEBORAH BAKER, have read the foregoing deposition and hereby affix my signature that same is 9 true and correct, except as noted above. 10 ________________________________ 11 DEBORAH BAKER 12 THE STATE OF __________ ) 13 COUNTY OF __________ ) 14 Before me, ____________________, on this day personally appeared DEBORAH BAKER, known to me (or 15 proved to me under oath or through ___________________ (description of identify card or other document) to be 16 the person whose name is subscribed to the foregoing instrument and acknowledged to me that they executed 17 the same for the purposes and consideration therein expressed. 18 Given under my hand and seal of office 19 this _____ day of _______________, 2007. 20 ________________________________ 21 NOTARY PUBLIC IN AND FOR THE STATE OF ___________________ 22 23 24 25 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 98 1 COUNTY OF DALLAS ) 2 STATE OF TEXAS ) 3 I, David B. Jackson, RDR, certified 4 shorthand reporter in and for the State of Texas, do 5 hereby certify that the facts as stated by me in the 6 caption hereto are true; that there came before me the 7 aforementioned named person, who was by me duly sworn 8 to testify the truth concerning the matters in 9 controversy in this cause; and that the examination was 10 reduced to writing by computer transcription under my 11 supervision; that the deposition is a true record of 12 the testimony given by the witness. 13 I further certify that I am neither 14 attorney or counsel for, nor related to or employed by, 15 any of the parties to the action in which this 16 deposition is taken, and further that I am not a 17 relative or employee of any attorney or counsel 18 employed by the parties hereto, or financially 19 interested in the action. 20 Given under my hand and seal of office on 21 this, the 30th day of July, A.D., 2007. 22 _______________________________ David B. Jackson, RDR, CSR 672 23 Expiration Date: 12/31/2008 United American Reporting, FRN-209 24 5220 Renaissance Tower Dallas, Texas 75270 25 (214) 855-5300 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718 99 1 I N D E X 2 1. Appearances 2 2. The Witness: DEBORAH BAKER 3 Examination by: MR. PRICE 3 Examination time: 1 hour, 5 minutes 4 Examination by: MR. GORMAN 49 Examination time: 2 hours, 2 minutes 5 3. Signature Page 96 4. Reporter's Certificate 98 6 7 E X H I B I T S 8 Ex # Description Pg Ln 9 Exhibit 3 23 2 10 11 Exhibit 2 24 4 12 Exhibit 4 28 17 13 14 Exhibit 5 29 23 15 Exhibit 1 31 5 16 17 Exhibit 6 34 8 18 Exhibit 7 37 19 19 20 Exhibit 8 41 23 21 22 23 24 25 214-855-5300 UARS 800-445-7718